[meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While

From: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 10:04:27 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <227675.15207.qm_at_web30703.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

I agree, there is no harm in admitting failure and moving on as long as an
honest effort was put into it and the intentions where right from the
beginning. In my opinion, the biggest mistake was quoting outrageous values in
the first place. A good dealer would recognize the true value and provide
realistic figures to landowners. There is a track record for this meteorite
dating back over 100 years and prices were known to be on the decline for the
last decade. No amount of wishful thinking will bring up the price as the
supply is dramatically increasing.


To have a huffed farmer on the loose badmouthing people involved with meteorites
is doing major damage. The farmers expectations seem way out of line with
reality which is a major problem these days. Nearly every farmer I have met has
been fairly pragmatic, honest and not all that quick to judge. A lot of them
have college educations. This guy is really mad and people will listen.
Everybody thinks a quick buck can be made by selling meteorites but in the real
world, it takes a lot of hard work and patience. It would be in the interest of
everybody to settle with this farmer immediately before his pride throws him
into some kind of crusade.

Best Regards,

Adam
  

  



----- Original Message ----
From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
To: Meteorite-list <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; Jason Utas
<meteoritekid at gmail.com>
Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 9:31:27 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be
living With For a While

If the deal was not completed, would it not be more respectful to return all the
material if 25% of cash can not be paid?
I personally dont think its the landowners at fault or in the wrong from what I
have read.
He offered 25% of profits, if there is no profit, why not just return the
material - all of it rather then 25%.
Between this and the BS story of the WI main mass... which I cant understand why
it was ever published... and West with hunters getting kicked off only to return
to the land in different clothes.... ouch. Its going to start adding up guys.

Greg Catterton
www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
IMCA member 4682
On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites
On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites


--- On Tue, 2/22/11, Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be
>living With For a While
> To: "Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Date: Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 12:17 PM
> Greg, All,
> Since the money is apparently not being made, unless you
> can propose
> some new marketing method whereby Steve could sell all of
> the finds in
> a reasonable amount of time, I see returning 25% of them as
> a fair
> compromise. The impression I got from watching that
> video was that
> the farmer was angry at having trusted Steve with all of
> the
> meteorites that were on his land -- that were now gone, and
> that he
> didn't think he would be paid for. He said it
> repeatedly - if you
> have them, don't let them go. Yes the farmer wanted
> his 25%, but I
> have little doubt that he would appreciate the prompt
> return of 25% of
> the rocks found on his land -- versus a payout that might
> not come for
> decades. If they would be unhappy with such an
> agreement, why not up
> their percentage slightly to compensate? As bad as it
> sounds to say
> this, it's not like the material is selling, after
> all. Given what
> was said by both parties in the video, I believe we can
> assume this to
> be true...
> Regards,
> Jason
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Thunder Stone <stanleygregr at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > All:
> >
> > In the video I get the sence that the landowner is mad
> because he was promised a lot of money (I don't think he
> wants his rocks back) he just wants the money he was
> promosed; whether it is right or wrong, I think that is the
> reason for him being angry and going to the media. I think
> the best solution is to find the best way to market these
> meteorites and sell them and get the money to the
> landowners.
> >
> > Greg S.
> >
> > ----------------------------------------
> >> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 08:47:02 -0800
> >> From: meteoritekid at gmail.com
> >> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials
> and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While
> >>
> >> Wouldn't the signed contracts dictate that Steve
> only return 25% of
> >> what was found? Since the agreement was 25/75
> (mentioned in the
> >> video), the issue, it seems, could be entirely
> settled if Steve turned
> >> 25% of the finds over to the landowners. If the
> money's not there, it
> >> seems to me like that would be the quickest and
> easiest means of
> >> settling the dispute.
> >> Unless there's some reason for Steve to hold on to
> it all even though
> >> he can't sell it at present...that would seem to
> be the easiest
> >> solution. I see no reason not to do that, aside
> from the fact that
> >> the farmers wouldn't necessarily be getting money
> for their rocks.
> >> But since it doesn't look like they're getting any
> anyway, at least
> >> they'd have less reason to think they'd been
> cheated, which is clearly
> >> the case given what was said in the video.
> >> Jason
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:38 AM, wrote:
> >> > Bill, Phil, list,
> >> > It sounds like you and Phil are saying the
> same thing. Albeit in totally diligent ways. I hate to say
> this but many of us agree with both of you.
> >> > Since Picasso, tiffany's and Lindsay Lohan
> are not too likely to become partners in this venture. The
> venture may indeed turn out to be a flop.
> >> > I said it earlier that I know Steve has tried
> marketing these space gems. But, it sounds like what I am
> hearing is that time is ticking and since the de Beers had
> two things lacking here. Mega bucks and a monopoly on
> virtually all of the worlds diamond caches.
> >> > This seems to NOT be the case with Steve and
> his cartel.
> >> > By Steve's own admission the money is tight.
> Others are already competing for sales of these gems that
> they possess. And nobody is buying them.
> >> > Who could blame them? The potential for fake
> stones is uncontrollable. Everything on the planet is being
> faked today and when you can fake something with as little
> as a piece of paper. Well, this is simply to easy to fake.
> With trust now at the forefront, how do we know these stones
> came from meteorites? Please. I trust Steve and know him to
> be honest but, you cannot depend on that in the real world.
> >> > I feel for this whole group because as I said
> before they are all good people but, unless De Beers bails
> them out or they change the game plan and sell meteorites.
> Nothing short of a miracle is going to save this venture.
> >> > They say in Hollywood that any press is good
> press so. this may be good for the show but looking at the
> big picture. IMHO this should end as quickly as possible.
> >> > Carl
> >> > Carl or Debbie Esparza
> >> > Meteoritemax
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---- bill kies wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Steve,
> >> >>
> >> >> If I'm correct, you're saying the deal
> was a flop and everyone has to take a gig. Disclaimers like
> this might help divert blame in the business world but where
> does this leave humble collectors with no agenda other than
> the desire to pick up a few space rocks when the rare
> opportunity presents itself? Surely you remember those days,
> even though you aren't a collector, as they were not all
> that long ago.
> >> >>
> >> >> Maybe you should return all the material
> you can. Try to make these people happy and live up to the
> respect you convinced them you were worthy of.
> >> >>
> >> >> Bill
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > To: altmann at meteorite-martin.de;
> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com;
> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> >> >> > From: meteorhntr at aol.com
> >> >> > Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 04:26:35
> +0000
> >> >> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The
> Trials and Tribulations in Dealing withLando wners
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Hello List,
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Wow, what an outpouring of comments
> today.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Let me bring all of you up to speed
> on this.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Five years ago, I partnered with
> around 10 or so friends and they combined some money, and I
> offered up some time and we started hunting for meteorites
> together. We choose to go to a certain location in Kansas
> where pallasites had been found in the past.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > We chose this location after I had
> my success locating some pallasite meteorites at the Brenham
> strewnfield.
> >> >> > We got land leases to hunt, without
> any promise of any big money, no talk of Millions, or
> thousands or even hundreds of dollars to anyone. We just
> started hunting and we started finding meteorites. Some of
> my friends, at least 8 of us in the group, were very
> connected meteorite dealers and we decided to try to sell
> some of our finds, we tried and we tried and we tried, and
> we sold one meteorite. We contacted virtually all the
> institutions with notable meteorite collections and none of
> them wanted to either buy or to trade for any of our
> specimens. The one sale was made, and the land owner from
> where this meteorite came from got his contracted percentage
> royalty, and he was VERY pleased. It was truly money from
> heaven for him.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The meteorites from this particular
> location have the reputation of being the worst rusting
> meteorites known to man. Far worse than Campo, Nantan,
> Brenham or any other "ruster" one can think of. So we could
> understand why no one wanted to buy any more of this
> meteorite. It was just too big of a risk for people to
> take.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > As we kept finding more and more
> meteorites, we were challenged with the supply and demand
> issue. Much supply, virtually no demand. Not a good
> outlook.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Then one of the dealers in the group
> reminded us of the high quality gemstones that had been
> faceted from the peridot in this meteorite. So we took the
> specimen in the worst condition out of our inventory and
> practiced trying to free up some of the olivine that was in
> it, and sure enough, there were some amazing gemstones
> produced.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > A year and a half ago, we went to
> all the land owners where we had found meteorites and told
> them that if we would liquidate all the meteorites we found,
> we probably would only get $0.10 or $0.15 per gram. But we
> felt that as gemstones, we could make more money for
> everyone.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > We decided to incorporate our
> partnership as Palladot Inc, a Kansas corporation, that
> focused on selling meteorites, mostly in gemstone format.
> >> >> > I am the President, and Jason
> Phillips is our C.E.O.. We hired Charles Ellias, who is a
> graduate gemologist with 25 years of experience in the color
> gemstone market, to manage our operations, including
> overseeing the faceting, grading and pricing and marketing
> of the gemstones.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Our original contract only promised
> the landowners that they would earn their royalty on the
> "wholesale" sale of the meteorites. We told all the land
> owners we wanted to pursue the gemstone market as there was
> very little demand in the meteorite world for the specimens
> as meteorites. It was one of the landowners that actually
> suggested "pooling" all of the royalties together, so we
> wouldn't have to melt down every meteorite, and this way all
> the landowners could still share proportionately by their
> contribution in the profits.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > It was at that point, that in the
> spirit of full discloser, we explained how the gemstone
> market gave us the best up-side potential for earnings. If a
> market could be built for these most amazing and rare
> gemstones with a fascinating story, then we would have the
> supply to fill the demand created. And yes, IF there would
> be millions of dollars of demand created, we would have
> millions of dollars of gems.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > All of the land owners, except for
> one, agreed to pool their royalty interest together and join
> us in the gem market.
> >> >> > The one landowner that didn't want
> to go to the gem business with us, was happy to take his
> portion "in kind" and we gave him his meteorites. All the
> others signed a new agreement that pooled their royalties
> together.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > One year ago this month, we started
> selling Palldot Pallasitic Peridot gemstones at the Tucson
> show (specificially at the Pueblo Show at the Executive
> Inn.) It seems we chose the worst year, economically
> speaking, since the Great Depression to start a
> business...not to mention, a business in the luxury jewelry
> market.
> >> >> > But we still made some sales, and
> our business is growing.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Now, back a year and a half ago, the
> deal we made was that we would share the royalty to the
> landowners based on the retail profits rather than on the
> wholesale sales. The landowner who was featured in this
> local TV story we are all talking about, actually had his
> attorney look over the new pooling agreement. In fact, his
> attorney made some suggestions to alter it, and we agreed to
> his suggested changes.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > There NEVER was any promise of
> "getting rich quick." Never. Getting rich over time...maybe,
> if we played our cards right.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > But we did state that the sale of
> just a few gemstones could yield more money than the whole
> meteorite could fetch on its own.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > So, for the last several months,
> this one landowner has been trying to get Jason and me to
> "alter his contract." If it were just a matter of making him
> happy, there wouldn't be a problem. BUT there are ALL the
> other landowners that we are in binding contracts with. We
> would make the others very mad if we gave into this one
> man's demands at their expense.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Of course, if we were in breach of
> contract, there would be legal remedies this man could take.
> But we aren't in breach of the contract so he chose to
> threaten us with going to the investigative reporter at a TV
> station with his story. We discussed some options that we
> could offer him, and still keep the other land owners happy,
> but they were not what he wanted, so he went to the reporter
> anyway.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > At the start, I think the reporter
> thought there was this huge story, but I spent nearly two
> hours of interviews with her, and when she heard my side,
> the only thing she had left for her story was that this one
> landowner was "not happy" that he hadn't seen any profits
> yet.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Well, I am "not happy" that we
> haven't seen any profits either!
> >> >> >
> >> >> > But we are doing the best we can.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > We are making sales, and when there
> are profits, the stockholders will get dividends and the
> landowners will get royalties.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > We have invested over $100,000 and
> somewhere north of 3,000 man hours into this one project.
> This landowner has invested zero dollars, and zero hours.
> There are a lot of other people that have far more invested,
> and we ALL want to see a return. He will be entitled to his
> share when profits are generated just as he agreed to a year
> and a half ago.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Now, let me also remind you that
> news reporters don't care about telling the whole story.
> They only had a few minutes for the segment, and while I
> share all of this with the reporter, she (and her editors)
> decided to run the story for ratings purposes. Because,
> everyone I have talked to said this really is a "non-story."
> Millions of people everyday are not happy with contracts
> they entered into in the past. It isn't news. Nowhere in the
> contract does it say that each landowner "has to be happy."
> In fact, that is why you have contracts, because,
> inevitably, people often become less than happy with the
> deals they struck over time.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Meanwhile, we have an obligation to
> our shareholders, and to the landowners to press on and do
> our best to make all of us as much money as we can. It might
> be sad if what we are doing was hurting science, but to be
> honest, if there wasn't the potential for profit with the
> gemstones, we would have quit hunting a long time ago, and a
> lot of these rocks would still be underground rusting away
> anyway.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I know this explanation won't make
> everyone happy, but I have learned a long time ago that it
> isn't my job to make everyone happy.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > I just do the best I can with the
> hand I am dealt.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Feel free to contact me off the list
> if you have any further questions.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Steve Arnold
> >> >> > President, Palladot Inc
> >> >> > Co-Host Meteorite Men
> >> >> > ArnoldMeteorites.com
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless
> BlackBerry
> >> >> >
> ______________________________________________
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> >> >>
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Received on Tue 22 Feb 2011 01:04:27 PM PST