[meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?

From: Rob Holcomb <rob.holcomb_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 20:51:58 -0800
Message-ID: <4F71DFB438304D52B9CEE8D681351F1C_at_ATTHEFARM>

Hi all!
I studied geology (back when plate-tectonics was still an interesting
theory ) and there was absolutely zero mention of meteorites or even lunar
materials. But now that I've gotten meteorites in the blood I find that my
old professors and colleagues find these very interesting . I currently work
in an academic metallurgy lab and there are several faculty that are totally
enthralled in meteorites (even though their main research interest might be
stainless steels or brasses.).

So I agree that most geologists wouldn't know a moon rock.

Rob

      Rob Holcomb ... PO Box 1306
      650-223-4757 ... Palo Alto, CA 94302



--------------------------------------------------
From: "Michael Gilmer" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 7:08 PM
To: "Murray Paulson" <murray.paulson at gmail.com>
Cc: "tett" <tett at rogers.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?

> Hi List,
>
> No offense to geologists, but many geologists are not experienced with
> meteorites. Some are, some are not. I have a friend who is a
> geologist who worked at the Yucca Mountain complex. His knowledge is
> very extensive, yet I know more about meteorites than he does. We
> discussed this, and he told me that not all geologists extend their
> learning into the realm of meteorites. While all geologists know what
> a meteorite is, many cannot identify one or speak authoritatively on
> them. So, asking a geologist is better than asking a plumber, but
> it's not a sure thing when it comes to meteorites. It all depends on
> the individual geologist and what areas of expertise he/she has.
>
> Given the fact that the majority of geologists have never seen an
> Apollo sample first-hand, I wouldn't expect one to positively identify
> such a specimen from just looking at it. So, this seller's
> testimonial carries no weight.
>
> Does the item have any bids on it yet?
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone & Ironworks Meteorites
>
> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
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> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> On 2/3/11, Murray Paulson <murray.paulson at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ya, I know, it should have been a "meteorologist" and he would have
>> slipped through ...
>>
>> Murray ; )
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 7:26 PM, tett <tett at rogers.com> wrote:
>>> Total B.S.
>>>
>>> As soon as he wrote, "I showed it to a geologist.." I knew this was
>>> fake.
>>>
>>> Cheers!
>>>
>>> Mike Tettenborn
>>>
>>> On 03/02/2011 7:52 PM, Matson, Robert D. wrote:
>>>>
>>>> If the sample is real, it is an extraordinarily large one
>>>> (comparatively
>>>> speaking).
>>>> As such, it's surprising that someone would be dumb enough to try to
>>>> sell
>>>> it
>>>> on eBay. --Rob
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Thunder Stone [mailto:stanleygregr at hotmail.com]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2011 4:42 PM
>>>> To: mike; Matson, Robert D.
>>>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> All:
>>>>
>>>> Appears it is illegal to own one - but as to it being real - probable?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> http://blogs.airspacemag.com/moon/2009/07/can-you-legally-own-a-piece-of-the-moon/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Can You Legally Own a Piece of the Moon?
>>>> A Moon rock on Mt. Everest: Not for keeps Mr. Ian Sheffield of
>>>> Edinburgh
>>>> Scotland is miffed. He claims to have not one, but two dust samples of
>>>> the
>>>> Moon-one from the Apollo 11 mission and another from the Apollo 15
>>>> mission.
>>>> He explains that he bought these lunar samples "from a dealer" about 3
>>>> years
>>>> ago. The article does not indicate how much he paid for them, but he
>>>> does
>>>> allow that each is valued at "around ?2000" (about $3300) each.
>>>> A problem arose when he planned to display his samples to the public.
>>>> He
>>>> apparently wrote to NASA asking if he could exhibit them. To his
>>>> astonishment, NASA refused to give him permission and demanded the
>>>> return
>>>> of
>>>> the samples, claiming that the lunar dust in his possession was
>>>> property
>>>> of
>>>> the United States government.
>>>> Mr. Sheffield's story of how the samples came into his possession is
>>>> interesting. He states the dust came off a camera film pack to which a
>>>> technician in the Lunar Receiving Laboratory was accidentally exposed.
>>>> Because no one was sure the lunar samples would not contain some
>>>> possible
>>>> primitive (and pathogenic) organisms when the Apollo 11 crew first
>>>> returned
>>>> to Earth, they had to spend three weeks in quarantine. Anybody in the
>>>> LRL
>>>> exposed to lunar material was compelled to join the astronauts in their
>>>> quarantine. The technician who was exposed went into isolation and (the
>>>> story claims) upon his release, "was given the dust as a memento."
>>>> My antennae went up at this point. No lunar samples are "given" to
>>>> private
>>>> individuals. Each piece of the Moon returned by the Apollo astronauts
>>>> is
>>>> carefully accounted for and resides in the Lunar Curatorial Facility in
>>>> Houston, where they are kept in two separate hurricane-proof vaults.
>>>> Many
>>>> lunar samples are loaned to scientific institutions for study. The only
>>>> lunar samples given away (of which I am aware) were to about a hundred
>>>> national leaders during President Nixon's 1969 world tour. The
>>>> beautiful
>>>> "Space Window" in the Washington National Cathedral, honoring man's
>>>> landing
>>>> on the Moon, holds a 7.18-gram basalt from Mare Tranquillitatis, on
>>>> loan
>>>> to
>>>> the Cathedral. Other moon rocks were presented to the Apollo astronauts
>>>> (and
>>>> Walter Cronkite) in 2004. However, each plaque came with a catch: the
>>>> lunar
>>>> samples can not be personally held by the recipients, and must be
>>>> displayed
>>>> at a local school or museum. Recently, Astronaut Scott Parazynski was
>>>> loaned
>>>> a sample of the Moon's regolith that he carried to the summit of Mount
>>>> Everest.
>>>> Some diplomatic gifts of lunar samples have found their way onto the
>>>> black
>>>> market. A notorious case is a sample presented to the people of
>>>> Honduras
>>>> back in 1969. This sample turned up during a NASA Inspector General
>>>> "sting"
>>>> which was designed to catch dealers of fake lunar samples. To the
>>>> agents'
>>>> surprise, they were offered a genuine lunar rock: asking price, $5
>>>> million.
>>>> A meeting was arranged and the rock (and presumably, the seller) was
>>>> seized.
>>>> Another lunar sample was stolen from a museum in Malta between 1990 and
>>>> 1994; it was recovered in another sting operation in 1998.
>>>> The federal government forbids private ownership of any Apollo sample.
>>>> Yet, such samples show up every now and then. The most common form they
>>>> take
>>>> is dust stuck to adhesive tape (an easy way to "clean" the surface of
>>>> some
>>>> exposed sample container, tool, or space suit used on the lunar
>>>> surface).
>>>> Mr. Sheffield's sample is likely to be one of these pieces. Its status,
>>>> I
>>>> was surprised to find out, is legally uncertain. Although NASA has sued
>>>> in
>>>> court to recover any such bootleg sample, no prosecution has succeeded,
>>>> except for those caught (literally) in the act of theft. In an
>>>> embarrassing
>>>> incident for NASA, a summer intern and two companions carried a safe
>>>> full
>>>> of
>>>> lunar samples out of a building at Johnson Space Center (as Dave Barry
>>>> would
>>>> say, I am not making this up). They were apprehended while trying to
>>>> sell
>>>> them at bargain basement prices and subsequently prosecuted.
>>>> It was rumored for years that several of the Apollo astronauts held
>>>> samples from their respective missions. If they did, it was probably
>>>> inadvertent-the lunar dust is extremely adhesive and it is possible
>>>> that
>>>> smudges of lunar dust clung to personal items returned from the Moon in
>>>> their Personal Preference Kits. Alan Bean, who documents the Apollo
>>>> experience through his oil paintings, is said to add ground-up patches
>>>> retrieved from his lunar space suit to his works. His reasoning is that
>>>> because his suit was dirty with lunar dust, some of that dust must find
>>>> its
>>>> way into his paintings, giving them a true "lunar" ambiance.
>>>> So Mr. Ian Sheffield of Edinburgh may be home free. I might suggest to
>>>> him
>>>> that given their quasi-legal status, he is probably better off not
>>>> calling
>>>> attention to his possession of these unique artifacts. In fact,
>>>> although
>>>> NASA frowns on owning stolen Apollo lunar samples, there are dozens of
>>>> lunar
>>>> samples available for sale on eBay. A number of meteorites recovered on
>>>> Earth, came from the Moon. Although most of them belong to national
>>>> governments that sponsor the recovery of meteorites from Antarctica,
>>>> several
>>>> are in private hands and can be bought and sold, just as any commodity.
>>>> Right now, there is a very nice anorthositic breccia from the lunar
>>>> highlands for sale. Better hurry though - the sale only lasts another
>>>> day.
>>>> Oh yes, the asking price: a mere $144,000.
>>>> By the way, over the years, I have been asked to look at a few "lunar"
>>>> samples that were in fact, lunar fakes. Caveat Emptor!
>>>>
>>>> ----------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2011 18:40:06 -0500
>>>>> From: meteoritemike at gmail.com
>>>>> To: ROBERT.D.MATSON at saic.com
>>>>> CC: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Robert and List,
>>>>>
>>>>> I saw that listing last night. I'm not 100% certain, but I think it is
>>>>> illegal to sell such a specimen. And I think it might be illegal just
>>>>> to own it. And even if it's legal, there's no way to tell if it's
>>>>> real, based on the photos and description.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> MikeG
>>>>>
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone& Ironworks Meteorites
>>>>>
>>>>> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook -
>>>>> http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
>>>>> News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
>>>>> Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Meteorite Top List -
>>>>> http://meteorite.gotop100.com EOM -
>>>>> http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564
>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> -
>>>>> On 2/3/11, Matson, Robert D. wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably impossible to tell from the pictures, but what are the odds
>>>>>> that this is truly Apollo material?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150557455015
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --Rob
>>>>
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>
>
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Received on Thu 03 Feb 2011 11:51:58 PM PST