[meteorite-list] Shirokovsky

From: Linton Rohr <lintonius_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 22:46:21 -0700
Message-ID: <63DD301FABA342E0986B0708D5C50E34_at_D190TH71>

Greetings listoids.
Doug, I believe you've introduced an important distinction, upon which I've
been intending on opining. Like you said, "a meteorwrong by most
definitions is *natural* material than can be confused with an authentic
meteorite out in the field." Shirokovsky, on the other hand, was a
deliberate fake. A man-made concoction for the sole purpose of fraud. (Based
on what I've read here.) I can understand the interest in a legitimate
meteorwrong - I bought a piece of Mendota myself - but, in my opinion,
Shirokovsky does not deserve to be in that category. I would be no more
likely to purchase a sample, than to intentionally purchase counterfeit
currency. It has about the same worth.
But while I have to agree with Adam's point of view on this, I can somewhat
understand the opposing views. Respect them, anyway. Interestingly though,
most all of those in favor of collecting it, already have it in their
collections. A case of "sour grapes", in reverse? ;^)
Just my two cents. Actual value may vary.
Linton

----- Original Message -----
From: "MexicoDoug" <mexicodoug at aim.com>
To: <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, August 19, 2011 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Shirokovsky


> Adam wrote:
>
> "I see Shirokovsky as being off topic"
>
> I agree and would keep my mouth shut iof I thought it were an innocent
> scam that was over and reparations made.
>
> Since I agree with Adam as such this will be my only post, since what is
> on topic, interestingly, is clarifying that it is not a
> eteorwrong*.. - a meteorwrong by most definitions is natural material
> than can be confused with an authentic meteorite out in the field. This
> is not that case, this is the case of the apple colored moldavites faked
> on eBay. This is a *PSEUDOMETEORITE* and that term is doing it a favor,
> and we should IMO all be very clear about that for the mutual benefit of
> all of our collections and future material that could enter them.
>
> Shirokovsky may elicit the Pavlovian Dogs salivation in collectors that
> haven't been soiled by it. You know - save that salivation for the real
> stuff, Shirokovsky isn't even in the category of a blow-up meteorite doll.
> There is nothing technologically interesting about Shirokovsky, the matrix
> is nothing better than you can find in a cheap faux bead shop, and why
> people think it would have an etch pattern is beyond me. The only reason
> to have it is because when you drive by an accident on the highway and see
> an accident with blood and guts, you have to stop and cause everyone else
> a traffic jam as you gawk. And then you have to tell everyone else, yes,
> look I have a piece of that corpse on the road, look at me!
>
> I wouldn't feel this way at all if the story were all closed and those who
> have lost hundreds of thousands of dollars (yes, the amount is correct)
> were ok and the crooks in jail. But the collective memory seems to mean
> nothing even if we can learn from our past. Everything would be cool in
> the collectible category if there were a fixed amount of Shirokovsky out
> there.
>
> It is not all accounted for and it gives someone else the idea of
> manufacturing other meteorites; why, instead of getting locked up for
> stealing from several collectors and causing all kinds of business
> heartache beyond the active imagination of many listmembers, the message
> is clear. Make a Shitpkovsky fake, if you get caught, be nowhere to be
> found and burn the people who trusted you, cause a great deal of
> pollutuion that everyone else has to clean up (the equivalent of the Exxon
> Valdez, and we all cleaned it up), and then appear 10 years later selling
> more of it like war memorabilia from the dark side and getting people to
> actually argue it is a good thing to have in collections.
>
> Huuumpt. I still remember being at a function 3 years ago where the big
> meteorite dealer insisted to an ignorant crowd that his many Shirokovsky
> pseudometeorites. He sold them for $25/g and many just three years ago
> painted me as someone who didn't know since he was the expert (ha).
>
> Here's what the serious problem is: the material was all controlled before
> by the dealer terrorists and collector rapists. If you bought a piece of
> this suckerite from one of the original good faith dealers, you did a fine
> thing to help bail them out and had the cute thing to discuss it in a
> charitable show and tell. But - Now assigning a collection value to new
> material all you are doing is having money chase the masses that were
> never cut. And as we all know, when money chases, money gets. And -
> guess where this new material is coming from?
>
> Kindest wishes
> Doug
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites at yahoo.com>
> To: Adam <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Fri, Aug 19, 2011 5:38 pm
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Shirokovsky
>
>
> I guess collecting artifacts has made me leery about fakes. Get caught
> with one
> fake artifact and it will put your entire collection in question. It is
> best to
> get artifacts papered and destroy any that have been "killed" by an
> independent
> authenticator. I see Shirokovsky as being off topic since it is not a
> meteorite
> and is was only produced in order to defraud honest collectors out of
> their hard
> earned money.
> If you want a piece of a recycled old Ford motor block in your collection,
> that
> is your business. To me, it is garbage and so are the people who produced
> it!
>
> Adam
>
Received on Sun 21 Aug 2011 01:46:21 AM PDT