[meteorite-list] Fwd: BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space

From: Adam Hupe <*raremeteorites_at_meteoritecentral.com*> Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2011 13:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <310093.3948.qm_at_web30702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> · raremeteorites_at_meteoritecentral.com

---
Howdy all
    I can't exactly label myself "esteemed" but I'll say a few words...  The 
short version is, I have a lot more respect for Ralph Harvey than I do for the 
NYT. His quote in that article looks like the sort of thing that gets 
cherry-picked for effect. Yes, there are meteorites that are bought and sold 
illegally, and that's bad. There are also a hell of a lot of meteorites in 
research collections that would be rusting away in a desert somewhere if it 
weren't for collectors. That's good. I have no doubt that Ralph is fully aware 
of both sides of the argument, and I highly doubt that he intended to label all 
meteorite collection everywhere as a flaming travesty against all of humanity, 
the majority of puppies, and most unicorns everywhere. 
    Here's another recent article that makes a point pertinent to this 
discussion (before it loses track and goes Fox-bashing), namely that science 
reporting has taken a sharp decrease in quality lately as the major media 
outlets have done away with dedicated science writers: 
http://tinyurl.com/3llqgay
        Recent stories on "life" in CI meteorites, "natural atomic bomb blasts" 
on Mars, and now this story are symptoms of a bigger problem, namely the lack of 
well-informed treatment of science issues by the major media outlets. Science 
stories are increasingly handled by writers who are looking for high-impact, 
wow-factor "news" items as opposed to lower-key but better-informed articles by 
science journalism professionals. I can say from my own experience that it is 
rather frustrating to attend conferences where I see all manner of well 
thought-out, interesting research presented, and then to turn around and see 
little more than sensationalistic crap wind up front and center in the major 
media. That's not good for anyone - the really interesting stuff never reaches a 
wider audience, and the public winds up thinking that scientists waste their 
time and tax dollars on embarrassing nonsense like the examples I stated above. 
I think that's the effect we're seeing in this NYT article at least in part, and 
while it is unfortunate it doesn't surprise me much.
Cheers,
Marc Fries
On Apr 4, 2011, at 12:51 PM, mail at mhmeteorites.com wrote:
Perhaps one of the many esteemed researchers on this list would be kind enough 
to write a rebuttal.
Matt
------------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215
-----Original Message-----
From: Yinan Wang <veomega at gmail.com>
Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 14:44:02
To: Meteorite-list<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space
For those who are inclined to do so, you can certainly write a letter
to the editor which may be published in the Opinions page  of the NY
times as a response:
http://www.nytimes.com/content/help/site/editorial/letters/letters.html?ref=letters
-YvW
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
This is one of the most sensationalized, biased, uninformed, and skewed
article I've ever read on NYT's website regarding meteorites. Mainly the
article focuses on the Gebel Kamil iron meteorite, however it paints a grim
picture and tries to draw a connection to all meteorites implying that the
private market is somehow damaging the science.
Black Market Trinkets From Space:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/science/05meteorite.html
Quote: "Popular or not, the meteorites were taboo. In Egypt and elsewhere,
scientists say, it is illegal without a permit to remove meteorites from a
country."
Quote: "The scientists say they have relatively few samples compared with
the booming illicit sales."
Quote: "Dr. Harvey of Case Western Reserve said the quandary applied to the
scientific community as a whole. The rampant looting of meteorite sites and
skyrocketing prices for the fragments, he said, ?dramatically reduce who can
get samples to do the research."
Quote: "The black market has exploded in size mainly because of a rush of
new meteorites arriving from North Africa and the Arabian Peninsula."
Quote: "The collectors association, founded in 2004 in Nevada, now has
hundreds of members around the globe. And while some traders deal in
legitimate exports, many do not. One buyer expressed remorse after reading
about scientific angst over the thriving market. ?I?m very ashamed,? the
buyer wrote on a blog. ?I?m surely a part of the problem.
This article is irresponsible and borderline yellow journalism from the NYT.
They should be ashamed for running such a biased and uninformed story. Well
over half of the article weighs on the disadvantages and more than infers a
"possible" damage to science which is not there.
It almost completely ignores the great good that's been accomplished through
private collecting/hunting/curating or meteorites and the contributions that
have been made by private collectors and hunters. It never mentions
donations to institutions, how much of a sample is needed to study any
meteorite, nor does it mention how many people it brings to the science.
There is one very good quote from Anne which states:
?The scientists do not have time to go hunt for their own meteorites, so
somebody has to do it for them,? said Anne M. Black, president of the
collectors association. ?It?s common sense.?
To the uninformed reader, and inexperienced meteorite collector the NYT
article looks very bad and creates an artificially biased view from those
not familiar with meteorites. It's purely political.
I think it should be an article for MHC Magazine. To make it FAIR for
everyone involved, I want ALL points of view, from all sides. From the
scientific world, and the private market, as well as the points from the
center. Anyone who would like the opportunity to tell the WHOLE story, who
cares to write a rebuttal for the NYT's blatantly biased article, send me
your info. I would be more than happy to publish it!
Contact me with your comments, facts and opinions. This article will be both
on the blog http://www.mhcmagazine.com/blog/ and in the next issue of the
magazine!
Regards,
Eric Wichman
MHC Magazine
http://www.mhcmagazine.com
______________________________________________
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http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
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-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Fries <chondritehero at gmail.com>
To: wahlperry <wahlperry at aol.com>
Sent: Wed, Apr 6, 2011 2:38 am
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space
Hey Sonny - could you do me a favor and post this to the meteorite list?  I keep 
trying but it ain't showin' up.
Cheers,
Marc
---
Howdy all
    I can't exactly label myself "esteemed" but I'll say a few words...  The 
short version is, I have a lot more respect for Ralph Harvey than I do for the 
NYT. His quote in that article looks like the sort of thing that gets 
cherry-picked for effect. Yes, there are meteorites that are bought and sold 
illegally, and that's bad. There are also a hell of a lot of meteorites in 
research collections that would be rusting away in a desert somewhere if it 
weren't for collectors. That's good. I have no doubt that Ralph is fully aware 
of both sides of the argument, and I highly doubt that he intended to label all 
meteorite collection everywhere as a flaming travesty against all of humanity, 
the majority of puppies, and most unicorns everywhere. 
    Here's another recent article that makes a point pertinent to this 
discussion (before it loses track and goes Fox-bashing), namely that science 
reporting has taken a sharp decrease in quality lately as the major media 
outlets have done away with dedicated science writers: 
http://tinyurl.com/3llqgay
        Recent stories on "life" in CI meteorites, "natural atomic bomb blasts" 
on Mars, and now this story are symptoms of a bigger problem, namely the lack of 
well-informed treatment of science issues by the major media outlets. Science 
stories are increasingly handled by writers who are looking for high-impact, 
wow-factor "news" items as opposed to lower-key but better-informed articles by 
science journalism professionals. I can say from my own experience that it is 
rather frustrating to attend conferences where I see all manner of well 
thought-out, interesting research presented, and then to turn around and see 
little more than sensationalistic crap wind up front and center in the major 
media. That's not good for anyone - the really interesting stuff never reaches a 
wider audience, and the public winds up thinking that scientists waste their 
time and tax dollars on embarrassing nonsense like the examples I stated above. 
I think that's the effect we're seeing in this NYT article at least in part, and 
while it is unfortunate it doesn't surprise me much.
Cheers,
Marc Fries
On Apr 4, 2011, at 12:51 PM, mail at mhmeteorites.com wrote:
Perhaps one of the many esteemed researchers on this list would be kind enough 
to write a rebuttal.
Matt
------------------------
Matt Morgan
Mile High Meteorites
http://www.mhmeteorites.com
P.O. Box 151293
Lakewood, CO 80215
-----Original Message-----
From: Yinan Wang <veomega at gmail.com>
Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2011 14:44:02
To: Meteorite-list<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] BS In The NYT: Black Market Trinkets From Space
For those who are inclined to do so, you can certainly write a letter
to the editor which may be published in the Opinions page  of the NY
times as a response:
http://www.nytimes.com/content/help/site/editorial/letters/letters.html?ref=letters
-YvW
On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
This is one of the most sensationalized, biased, uninformed, and skewed
article I've ever read on NYT's website regarding meteorites. Mainly the
article focuses on the Gebel Kamil iron meteorite, however it paints a grim
picture and tries to draw a connection to all meteorites implying that the
private market is somehow damaging the science.
Black Market Trinkets From Space:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/science/05meteorite.html
Quote: "Popular or not, the meteorites were taboo. In Egypt and elsewhere,
scientists say, it is illegal without a permit to remove meteorites from a
country."
Quote: "The scientists say they have relatively few samples compared with
the booming illicit sales."
Quote: "Dr. Harvey of Case Western Reserve said the quandary applied to the
scientific community as a whole. The rampant looting of meteorite sites and
skyrocketing prices for the fragments, he said, ?dramatically reduce who can
get samples to do the research."
Quote: "The black market has exploded in size mainly because of a rush of
new meteorites arriving from North Africa and the Arabian Peninsula."
Quote: "The collectors association, founded in 2004 in Nevada, now has
hundreds of members around the globe. And while some traders deal in
legitimate exports, many do not. One buyer expressed remorse after reading
about scientific angst over the thriving market. ?I?m very ashamed,? the
buyer wrote on a blog. ?I?m surely a part of the problem.
This article is irresponsible and borderline yellow journalism from the NYT.
They should be ashamed for running such a biased and uninformed story. Well
over half of the article weighs on the disadvantages and more than infers a
"possible" damage to science which is not there.
It almost completely ignores the great good that's been accomplished through
private collecting/hunting/curating or meteorites and the contributions that
have been made by private collectors and hunters. It never mentions
donations to institutions, how much of a sample is needed to study any
meteorite, nor does it mention how many people it brings to the science.
There is one very good quote from Anne which states:
?The scientists do not have time to go hunt for their own meteorites, so
somebody has to do it for them,? said Anne M. Black, president of the
collectors association. ?It?s common sense.?
To the uninformed reader, and inexperienced meteorite collector the NYT
article looks very bad and creates an artificially biased view from those
not familiar with meteorites. It's purely political.
I think it should be an article for MHC Magazine. To make it FAIR for
everyone involved, I want ALL points of view, from all sides. From the
scientific world, and the private market, as well as the points from the
center. Anyone who would like the opportunity to tell the WHOLE story, who
cares to write a rebuttal for the NYT's blatantly biased article, send me
your info. I would be more than happy to publish it!
Contact me with your comments, facts and opinions. This article will be both
on the blog http://www.mhcmagazine.com/blog/ and in the next issue of the
magazine!
Regards,
Eric Wichman
MHC Magazine
http://www.mhcmagazine.com
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at
http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
______________________________________________
Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list