[meteorite-list] Rust Question about my stone meteorite. BKF is the best :)

From: Starsinthedirt at aol.com <Starsinthedirt_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 15:53:58 EDT
Message-ID: <7097a.1776f8f3.39bfdb56_at_aol.com>

Well, I stand corrected. I guess my statement was much to sweeping a
generalization. There are many samples in peoples collections that would be
valuable to science and I did not mean to dismiss them so lightly.

Mike and Dirk were the first to give me examples of my error and there
were more.

So I still agree with Shawn! But what I said went to far.

Tom

In a message dated 9/13/2010 1:42:58 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
meteoritemike at gmail.com writes:
Hi Tom,

The NWA 2086 specimen I submitted is being "researched" now. Will
this be ground-breaking research? Probably not. But an experienced
and qualified eye determined that it has some anomalous properties
after examining the specimen in hand. Instead of the usual
thin-sectioning, it is going to undergo microprobe analysis to
determine the composition of the anomalous features. Granted it is a
slim chance that this will be something new and exciting, but if it
is, then it's best that the specimen was not altered any more than
absolutely necessary. I guess it depends on the nature of the end
collection in question. I don't consider my collection to be the end
destination for any of the specimens in my cabinet. At best, I am a
temporary caretaker and they will outlive me by far. When I pass from
this Earth, those specimens will continue to exist without me like
they did for the first 4.5 billion years of their existence. I'm
comforted in some way by knowing that during my brief privilege of
caring for them, I do not introduce anything foreign into them. At
best, I endeavour to minimize the damage that they endure for every
hour they sit exposed on this alien world that is toxic to their very
nature. Without waxing too much more philosophic, I plan on seeing
that my specimens end up in an educational institution or museum after
I pass. Fate may dictate that one or more of them may end up being
scrutinized in some way in the future. Who knows when someone may
notice something odd or anomalous that we missed, and a piece will end
up undergoing microprobe analysis?

That's just my two Bessey Specks though...actual worth may vary. (I
stole Melanie's turn of phrase, my apologies!)

MikeG

On 9/13/10, Starsinthedirt at aol.com <Starsinthedirt at aol.com> wrote:
> Hi List, I must agree with Shawn on this one.
>
> Does any one know of a case where a meteorite came out of an end
> collectors collection to be used in any way in research? I am not
talking
> about
> Bob's 1st Lunar or Adams giant Lunar (These guys are not the end
> collectors).
>
> Any thing that does not degrade the sample and cause damage but makes it
> more pleasant to display in ones collection is a good thing.
>
>
>
> Tom Phillips
>
> In a message dated 9/13/2010 11:48:36 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time,
> photophlow at yahoo.com writes:
> Hi Martin and Listers
>
> Martin BKF is an acid and nothing more.... The acid doesn't bleach the
> surface and the active ingredient is oxalic acid, naturally occurs in
> plants
> and animals. The acid acts like an accelerant to the surface by stripping
> away the rust. The oxalic acid is nothing more then acid rain on
steroids.
> But
> in this case the rust is stripped away from the meteorite, preserving
the
> meteorite.
>
> As for making the meteorite worthless for being used for science, I
think
> we can leave that up to the scientists, and to be honest, I think most
> meteorites in peoples collections are void because I bet scientist have
> strict
> rules on handing and storage of meteorites. But again I am not a
scientist
> nor are most people on the list. But at any rate, if a scientist was
going
> to use the L6 meteorite for research, I think that they would use an acid
> as well to strip the surface away to get to the good stuff in the middle
:)
>
> As for changing a weathered meteorite from a W4 to W0 is probably
> impossible if the meteorite is a W4. The reason is because the weathering
> isn't
> superficial and the weathering is through out the meteorite. You would
have
> to
> strip down the meteorite to nothing. Now do I say that everyone go out
and
> do this no, but what I do say is if your confident and know what your
doing
> then do it because rust for a meteorite can spell trouble.
>
> As for devaluing a meteorite for research, Martin again I have to say
that
> most meteorites that people own could be deemed as worthless because of
> how they are handled, cut, sliced, buffed and stored. But again I don't
> think
> we all have a science lab in our bedrooms performing science experiments
> on our meteorites. If any thing I was able to stop the process of the
> meteorite from rusting and restore the surface to its original form. In
> that
> regard I am able to identify the meteorite from its physical features
now,
> making the L6 more important from a scientific observation stand point
and
> because I can see the meteorite and not rust from old age.
>
> Science 101, to stop an acid one can use a neutralizer aka water
>
> Shawn Alan
> IMCA 1633
> eBaystore
>
http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p
>
> 4340
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [meteorite-list] Rust Question about my stone meteorite. BKF is the
best
> :)Martin Altmann altmann at meteorite-martin.de
> Mon Sep 13 08:24:16 EDT 2010
>
>
> Previous message: [meteorite-list] Rust Question about my stone
meteorite.
> BKF is the best :)
> Next message: [meteorite-list] Rust Question about my stone meteorite.
BKF
> isthe best :)
> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>
> Humhem...please!
>
> No offense. It's absolutely you're private affair, what you're doing
with
> your meteorites.
>
> Though in general I think it's a big No-No to manipulate stony m
eteorites
> that way, to artificially bleach them. (Just was looking, "Bar Keeper
> Friend"s main reactive agent is oxalic acid).
> Stone meteorites are no irons. In my opinion such a treatment will make
> them
> to a certain degree worthless,
> as they can't be used anymore for scientific measurements.
>
> What I would urgently expect, is to avoid, that such bleached chondrites
> would be brought in circulation.
> The meteorite sector, other than the minerals and fossils sector, all in
> all
> was so far relatively spared from manipulated or fudged specimens.
>
> It would be in my very personal opinion everything else than good, that
> W2,
> W3, W4 material now would be pimped to be suggestive of being a W0 or a
> W1.
>
> I hope we all can agree about?
> Worried
> Martin
>
>
>
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von
> Shawn
> Alan
> Gesendet: Montag, 13. September 2010 07:59
> An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Cc: Jimski47 at aol.com
> Betreff: [meteorite-list] Rust Question about my stone meteorite. BKF is
> the
> best :)
>
> Jim k and the List,
>
>
> I took your advice and used the Bar Keeper Friend on my L6 meteorite
> fragment to remove the rust on the surface of the meteorite due to age
and
> I
> would have to say, wow, this stuff really works. The meteorite looks so
> much
> better. I can see the true color of the meteorite, I can see the texture
> and
> the gray matrix. I have a link down below of before and after images of
> the
> meteorite :) Take a look and you will be amazed of the results.
>
>
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48262799 at N03/4985819064/sizes/l/in/photostream/
>
>
> Shawn Alan
> IMCA 1633
> eBaystore
>
http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p
>
> 4340
>
>
> [meteorite-list] Rust Question about my stone meteorite.
> Jimski47 at aol.com Jimski47 at aol.com
> Sat Sep 11 07:38:57 EDT 2010
>
> Previous message: [meteorite-list] Tunkuska Tektites?
> Next message: [meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day -
> September 11, 2010
> Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----
> Hi Shawn,
>
> I doubt that soaking a meteorite in alcohol will remove rust. I've used
> fine grit sandpaper to remove rust from slices. Lay the sandpaper on a
> hard
> flat surface and gently rub the meteorite onto the sandpaper. For
removing
> rust from iron etched slices, I use a product called "Bar Keepers
Friend",
> this can be found in most grocery stores cleaning supplies isle. It
comes
> in
>
> a powder form, so you have to make a thick liquid out of it. Wet the
> meteorite with warm water then apply the liquid BKF. Rub it onto the
> meteorite
> with your finger gently. Rubbing to hard can damage the etch. After
> removing
>
> the rust, rinse the piece, soak it in alcohol and bake it dry in an oven
> about 200 degrees for 2 hrs.
>
> You can try the BKF process on a chondrite fragment and use a toothbrush
> to scrub it. It should work but you might want to experiment with a cheap
> uncl. NWA first.
>
> Jim K
>
> In a message dated 9/10/2010 11:14:49 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
> photophlow at yahoo.com writes:
> Hello Listers,
>
> I have a question about rust and how to clean it off your L6 meteorite.
> Now can you just soak the meteorite in a 99% alcohol bath for a couple
> days
> and the rust on the surface will some what come off the surface or are
> there
>
> other steps?
>
> The the size of the L6 fragment is 3.45g, so I dont have much room to
work
> with. I used a sand/finger nail file and sanded the surface, but not
sure
> if that made a difference and it seems that the L6 meteorite surface is
> stronger than the sand paper on the finger nail file.
>
> If any Listers have some suggestions let me know please :)
>
> Shawn Alan
> IMCA 1633
> eBaystore
>
http://shop.ebay.com/photophlow/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=&_trksid=p
>
>
> 4340
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meteorite.
> BKF is the best :)
> Next message: [meteorite-list] Rust Question about my stone meteorite.
BKF
> isthe best :)
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Received on Mon 13 Sep 2010 03:53:58 PM PDT