[meteorite-list] Could we get back to the science of meteorites, please ?

From: Charley <cmb62_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 17:44:39 -0400
Message-ID: <41E3A75A1C8E4BA6982F530697F11334_at_HAL1>

Really Phil ?

Whining like a little school-girl ?

I thought Andre's email was well written and to the point. I didn't see a
bit of whining.

This nonsense about dowsing rods is getting really old.

Best regards,

Charley Butterfield



> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 16:09:52 -0400
> From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Could we get back to the science of
> meteorites, please ?
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID: <764966A8ADCD4A509838D10DAC08A2EA at ET>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> I have an idea, instead of whining like a little school-girl about not
> being
> able to control the speech of others, why not just start an awesome
> meteorite related thread that is so interesting it totally dominates the
> conversation? Ever think of that? Or is it just more fun to whine? ;) :_at_
> :() hey look, it's an emoticon with a mustache :{)
>
> -----------------------
> Seriously, lighten up,
>
> Phil Whitmer

> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 18:07:21 +0000
> From: "DEBORAH ANNE K. MARTIN" <dak_mar at live.concordia.ca>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Could we get back to the science of
> meteorites, please ?
> To: "Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com"
> <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID:
> <D468CF74020A384CAC972CDDE8DE859615CE5579 at BL2PRD0103MB074.prod.exchangelabs.com>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hello all,
>
> I usually stay away from these protracted discussions and am quite happy
> to lurk on the list. A lot of good, qualified people discussing a topic I
> truly enjoy: meteorites.
>
> Now, I am not interested in sparring with anyone. I just published an
> article in the Montreal Gazette debunking UFOs; you could substitute UFOS
> for anything else in the ever widening field of pseudoscience and my
> article would remain essentially the same. So anyone eager for my views
> can readily look the article up.
>
> However, my computer has recently been invaded by an avalanche of emails
> from this list that has *nothing* to do with meteorites or science. The
> basic problem is that pseudoscience is like a religion; no amount of
> science will ever convince its proponents. So I usually don't bother;
> ignorance is bliss, as they say. So those who believe in dowsing,
> divining rods and whatever other contraption, feel free to search with
> them. Think you can find meteorites, gold, diamonds, water, Jimmy Hoffa
> with a stick ? Go for it ! That is your business; I'm just not
> interested.
>
> So, could we get back to the science of meteorites, please ?
>
> Cheers
>
> Andre
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 16:09:52 -0400
> From: "JoshuaTreeMuseum" <joshuatreemuseum at embarqmail.com>
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Could we get back to the science of
> meteorites, please ?
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID: <764966A8ADCD4A509838D10DAC08A2EA at ET>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
> reply-type=original
>
> I have an idea, instead of whining like a little school-girl about not
> being
> able to control the speech of others, why not just start an awesome
> meteorite related thread that is so interesting it totally dominates the
> conversation? Ever think of that? Or is it just more fun to whine? ;) :_at_
> :() hey look, it's an emoticon with a mustache :{)
>
> -----------------------
> Seriously, lighten up,
>
> Phil Whitmer
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: 18 Oct 2010 20:05:44 UT
> From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Could we get back to the science of
> meteorites, please ?
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: <DIIE.00000024000051CB at paulinet.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Steve wrote: "Second!"
>
> Bernd: "Third!" :-))
>
> I've been spending an enjoyable evening at the microscope ogling my
> NWA 5507 slice (16.39 gr - see Encyclopedia if interested). Marcin's
> NWA 5507 is an interesting L3.2 with lots of spectacular features:
>
> - clasts (or PP chondrules?) with abundant translucent, light-green
> hypersthene crystals in a grayish groundmass + tiny chromites
> - finely disseminated troilite
> - troilite-rimmed chondrules
> - complex BO-Pyroxene chondrules
> - and much more!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Bernd
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 17
> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 20:21:43 +0000 (UTC)
> From: Jim Strope <nwa482 at comcast.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Could we get back to the science of
> meteorites, please ?
> To: Meteorite Central <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID:
> <603118548.498703.1287433303358.JavaMail.root at sz0057a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Finally the voice of reason!!!!!
>
> The volume of OT subjects on this METEORITE???? mailing list is the VERY
> reason I check the archives instead of receiving emails.
>
> A meteorite could have crashed through the White House and not generated
> the volume of emails this OT subject has generated over the last few
> days.
>
> Jim
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> Hello all,
>
> I usually stay away from these protracted discussions and am quite happy
> to lurk on the list. A lot of good, qualified people discussing a topic I
> truly enjoy: meteorites.
>
> Now, I am not interested in sparring with anyone. I just published an
> article in the Montreal Gazette debunking UFOs; you could substitute UFOS
> for anything else in the ever widening field of pseudoscience and my
> article would remain essentially the same. So anyone eager for my views
> can readily look the article up.
>
> However, my computer has recently been invaded by an avalanche of emails
> from this list that has *nothing* to do with meteorites or science. The
> basic problem is that pseudoscience is like a religion; no amount of
> science will ever convince its proponents. So I usually don't bother;
> ignorance is bliss, as they say. So those who believe in dowsing,
> divining rods and whatever other contraption, feel free to search with
> them. Think you can find meteorites, gold, diamonds, water, Jimmy Hoffa
> with a stick ? Go for it ! That is your business; I'm just not
> interested.
>
> So, could we get back to the science of meteorites, please ?
>
> Cheers
>
> Andre
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 18
> Date: 18 Oct 2010 20:17:37 UT
> From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Could we get back to the science of
> meteorites, please ?
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: <DIIE.00000023000051CE at paulinet.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Steve wrote: "Second!"
>
> Bernd: "Third!" :-))
>
> I've been spending an enjoyable evening at the microscope ogling my
> NWA 5507 slice (16.39 gr - see Encyclopedia if interested). Marcin's
> NWA 5507 is an interesting L3.2 with lots of spectacular features:
>
> - clasts (or PP chondrules?) with abundant translucent,
> light-green hypersthene crystals, a greyish groundmass + numerous tiny
> chromites
> - finely disseminated troilite
> - troilite-rimmed chondrules
> - complex BO-Pyroxene chondrules
> - and so much more!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Bernd
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 19
> Date: 18 Oct 2010 20:19:42 UT
> From: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Could we get back to the science of
> meteorites, please ?
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID: <DIIE.00000022000051D1 at paulinet.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Oops, sorry for the double post!
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Bernd
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 20
> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 22:43:32 +0200
> From: "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 5 Kilo Iron Meteorite
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Message-ID: <009401cb6f05$217dc000$64794000$_at_de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi Greg S.
>
> The laws should be found here:
>
> http://www.austlii.edu.au/
>
>
> They are named
>
> - Museum Act 1969
> - Western Australian Consolidated Acts
> - South Australian Museum Act 1976
> - South Australian Consolidated Acts
> - Meteorites Acts 1973
> - Tasmanian Consolidated Legislation
> - Meteorites Act 1988
> - Northern Territory Consolidated Acts
>
>
> You know Greg, my first meteorites 30 years ago, were Australian
> meteorites.
> Mundrabillas, then Huckitta, Henbury, Murchison, Millbillillie and so on..
> They were relatively cheap and well available, because there were no
> restrictions,
> or where there were some, the trade and the hunting was tolerated by the
> Australian meteoricists
> (I guess because they regarded these exotic laws as silly as we do today).
>
> Well, and then I saw the decline of Australian meteoritics during the
> decades, o.k. two Euromet expeditions and one from the Schools of Mines
> gave
> three peaks, but that happened long ago,
> till to the total breakdown of our years.
>
> Regarding the positive developments and the upswing of the numbers of
> newly
> found and published meteorites in USA,
> in Sahara and in Oman,
>
> it would be to expect, that Australia today has to have MINIMUM 50 newly
> found and published meteorites per year.
> In reality we had this decade less than one single one per year.
>
> For what that shall be good and what for advantages such a legislation
> has,
> don't ask me,
> ask the meteoricists and curators in Australia, it's their business and
> responsibility, they must know.
>
> (I don't know, if they prefer to do nothing more with meteorites, then
> they
> at least should let those in peace, who are caring for and are interested
> in
> that matter - that would mean absolutely no harm for them, aside to store
> away the free deposit specimens of new meteorites, they would getting in).
>
> Their addresses you find on the Aussie-museums' pages and in the few
> publications about meteorites.
>
>
> Best!
> Martin
>
>
> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Thunder Stone [mailto:stanleygregr at hotmail.com]
> Gesendet: Montag, 18. Oktober 2010 21:37
> An: altmann at meteorite-martin.de; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Betreff: RE: [meteorite-list] 5 Kilo Iron Meteorite
>
>
> If he did turn them over to the Government, would he at least get some
> king
> of monetary compensation - like a finders fee.? That way maybe he would
> turn
> them over to the government, get some cash so he can look for more gold.?
> Yes this does show how the government makes a law to try and "preserve"
> the
> antiquities of the country - only to result in many many more meteorites
> not
> being classified and documented for science.
>
> The law needs to be changed - that's all.
>
> Greg S.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> From: altmann at meteorite-martin.de
>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 15:28:39 +0200
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 5 Kilo Iron Meteorite
>>
>> Well Jeff and Graham,
>> only another sad example.
>>
>> There is zero incentive for that prospector, to get his finds classified,
> to
>> reveal the data for more searches,
>> to bring it to a museum.
>>
>> He had all the work, he made a great recovery - and the reward would be a
>> wet handshake and the expenses for a bus ticket to Perth.
>>
>> Australia has lost another meteorite, like it lost so many before by
> virtue
>> of these antiquated laws,
>> where it was proven long ago,
>> that it is scientifically the wrong method, to regard finders of
> meteorites
>> as enemies and not as partners.
>>
>> In most of the other countries of the world, you would have now samples
>> of
>> such a find in the labs and in the national and regional museums.
>>
>> In parts of Australia, the laws prevent that.
>> Laws which threw Australian meteoritics 150 years back in time.
>> Laws, which never were tested to be conform with the constitution,
>> Laws, which greatly handicap the scientific work of the universities and
> the
>> public appointment of the institutes and museums to collect meteorites,
>> to
>> preserve meteorites and to enlarge and to diversify the collections.
>>
>>
>> Even in desert countries only a small handful of experts occupy
>> themselves
>> with that so rare and exotic matter called meteorite: Meteoricists,
>> curators, private collectors, private hunters, private dealers.
>>
>> Influence and competence to ensure that the legal conditions are given,
> that
>> a meaningful research on meteorites and that new finds are granted,
>> do have only the curators and the meteoricists.
>>
>> There are only a few in Australia.
>>
>> To us it's only left, to appeal to their professional ethics, their
>> expertise, their liability to the public,
>> which allows to them and supports them to do their research, and finally
> to
>> their reason,
>> to care for a modification of the laws,
>> that Australia once will be able to turn back again in the circle of the
>> great meteorite nations.
>>
>> It costs no money, it costs insight, will and practical wisdom.
>>
>> It's up to them.
>>
>> Don't wait too long.
>> Martin
>>
>>
>> -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Jeff
>> Kuyken
>> Gesendet: Montag, 18. Oktober 2010 10:48
>> An: e-mail ensoramanda; Meteorites USA
>> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] 5 Kilo Iron Meteorite
>>
>> I've seen other videos and know of other pieces this gold prospector has
>> found. To the best of my knowledge he just keeps them and according to
>> his
>> YouTube comments, uses them as a heat bank for his heater!
>>
>> Unfortunately for the finder, he doesn't own any of those pieces he found
>> while prospecting either. Under state law they all belong to the WA state
>> government so it may just be a matter of time before he gets a knock at
> the
>> door!
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Jeff
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "e-mail ensoramanda"
>> To: "Meteorites USA"
>> Cc:
>> Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 5:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 5 Kilo Iron Meteorite
>>
>>
>>> Would be interesting to know what happened to those irons found in
>>> Australia? ....knowing what the laws are now....have they been handed
>>> in for study/classification....or just disappeared
>>> mysteriously....anyone know the finder of more about the story?
>>>
>>> Jeff?
>>>
>>> They look much younger than Henbury with very nice regmaglypts.
>>>
>>> Graham, UK
>>>
>>> On 17 October 2010 18:37, Meteorites USA wrote:
>>>> Anyone wanna talk about meteorites? ;) Seems someone found a couple...
>>>>
>>>> Eric
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/16/2010 10:22 PM, Meteorites USA wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Another one... this time BIGGER! Strewnfield?
>>>>> http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=7y6dDtPekzQ
>>>>>
>>>>> Geoff and Steve were in Australia just recently. Hmmm...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/16/2010 10:15 PM, Meteorites USA wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=-619OvFyi5w
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>> Visit the Archives at
>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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>>>>>>
>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>> Visit the Archives at
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>>>>>
>>>> ______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
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>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
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>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
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>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> =
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 21
> Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:54:04 +0100
> From: e-mail ensoramanda <ensoramanda at ntlworld.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Could we get back to the science of
> meteorites, please ?
> To: bernd.pauli at paulinet.de
> Cc: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTikmAKOF7ASSOzx_LuaMuczX6W6_srHReq5OCf4W at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi Bernd/All,
>
> Does anyone know any more about the classification of NWA 6260 which
> is provisionally LL7
> metachondrite...Has that been confirmed yet...Met Bulletin still says
> "Unknown"?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Graham, UK
>
> On 18 October 2010 21:19, <bernd.pauli at paulinet.de> wrote:
>> Oops, sorry for the double post!
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Bernd
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Visit the Archives at
>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
> End of Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 86, Issue 42
> **********************************************
Received on Mon 18 Oct 2010 05:44:39 PM PDT