[meteorite-list] Professionals No Longer Sought

From: cdtucson at cox.net <cdtucson_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 13:34:08 -0400
Message-ID: <20101009133408.DMP0A.1219374.imail_at_fed1rmwml30>

Dave,
This is an interesting word "professional." Basically it does not mean much more than getting paid to do something.
I prefer the term professionalism. Professionalism includes the conduct of what a professional does.
Not only do they get paid but, they conduct themselves in a certain way including a long list of things;
Respect for others is an important ism. Bad mouthing your competition is one of the un's in the ism.
Ethics and Morals play a role in the isms as well.
Trust and honor play a huge role as well.
Having good business sense is key.
Playing by the rules is important.
Basic Business Knowledge can be huge.
Knowledge in general also plays a huge role.
In this Biz a basic Scientific and geology education is a great aid towards achieving the highest level of professionalism.
Each of these areas can be broken down and defined but basically there are various degrees of professionals and ism based on these factors and a few more I may have missed here whether you get paid or not.
To tackle your question about authenticity is a tough nut.
Even Earth minerals require a certain amount of testing or opinion to verify authenticity but, meteorite identification is far more difficult because it's not quite as aesthetically driven as the mineral biz. As an example. A perfect diamond is flawless. Not so with a perfect meteorite. To me the perfect meteorite is the one in my possession. ha ha.
Most dealers can identify most of the chondrites in general with a visual inspection. Beyond that the sky is the limit. Pun intended.
Yes, there are many rules of thumb about meteorites but I cannot think of a single rule that cannot at some point become an exception to the rule.
By that I mean if somebody came up with a rule book of meteorites there will always be rule breakers. So, we are involved in an industry that relies heavily on our Scientific counter parts.
We not only rely on them we depend on them. For without a Scientists name on a piece of paper describing it , you have either a rock or a unclassified meteorite. Either one is almost worthless.
To me it is this aspect in our Biz that is the most lacking. Sure we have great Scientists just not enough of them. Especially when it comes to Achondrites and odd irons such as Lovina. Many of these even the true Science professionals cannot agree on at first.
Which brings us to the word "Legal" definition? This seems to be a bit of a gray area.
Sure we can Google the word but there is no such thing as a *legal* meteorite. Not really.
Most collectible objects can be certified as authentic. This adds confidence which converts to trust.
With meteorites the only certification we have is in the name. Met soc certifies only the name. The rest is assumed accurate but not "legally" certified by anybody.
I would like to know why this is but, as this was explained by Jeff Grossman as the case but not why.
I think this is why eBay allows these crackpots to sell there rocks because nobody can prove them wrong through a listing alone. They may well be selling a true Lunar. Who knows unless it gets studied. Many of them even present their own testing results. I mean who could argue with that?
To me the ultimate professional guarantees what they sell with a money back guarantee. Period.
We are in a tough biz.
My 2 more cents.
Carl
 .

--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax
---- David Gunning <davidgunning at fairpoint.net> wrote: 
> 
> Hi Graham UK,
> 
> The last time I looked there was no check-list of attributes defining
> what it means to be a "professional" meteorite dealer.
> 
> The more I learn about the IMCA, and how it presents itself as a quasi
> enforcer of honest meteorite dealings between it's membership and the 
> meteorite collecting community, at large, the more I like what I see.
> 
> That is not to say, however, that I would want to subscribe to it's
> tenets of extreme trust that it's membership, you included, appears to
> crow about in place of solid verifiable scientific mineralogical evidence
> when purchasing meteorites, where and whenever possible.
> 
> One of the difficulties, seems to me, is that the scientists, generally
> speaking, are too deeply insulated from having to address the questions
> and concerns of us mere ordinary mortals, non IMCA members.
> Professionalism, at it's best, means addressing those devilish details
> that don't always quite square-up, in my view.  Science, at it's best,
> should be verifiable and evidence based for even us ordinary mere
> mortals, don't you suppose?
> 
> Verifiably yours,
> 
> Dave Gunning
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Hi Dave,
> >
> > I think you will find in time that many of the most "professional"
> > meteorite dealers as you call them do not have to sell themselves hard
> > on the list or to individuals as they have built up their reputations
> > over many years and do not need to. There are many who deal
> > "professionally" too but have other main professions not related to
> > meteorites. Very few in the world hunt and deal full time and many
> > many excellent dealers are part time....many only use the list very
> > occasionally.
> >
> > You may well have been contacted by 6 "professional" dealers but I
> > would take my time. Look around and study carefully what is on offer
> > that fits your needs from a wider field. Compare prices, quality and
> > check out the archives. It takes a while I have found.
> >
> > I find the vast majority of people on the list are very "professional"
> > as collectors, scientists or dealers and as such any one of them may
> > be willing to help you out if you have a specific item you are after.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Graham UK IMCA#1835
> >
> >
> >
> > On 8 October 2010 22:50, David Gunning <davidgunning at fairpoint.net>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi All,
> >>
> >> After an initial responsive surge of 6 "professional" meteorite dealers
> >> to my ad seeking same, the surge has, apparently, subsided. Dried-up.
> >> Gone kaput. ?So, lemme see, out of a total list membership of, what,
> >> 950,
> >> or so, members, and with six acknowledged professional meteorite
> >> dealers,
> >> (and other celestial objects dealers) amongst your ranks, that would be
> >> a
> >> ratio of 950 to 6 for an estimated percentage value of less that 1%
> >> total
> >> of professional dealers who view themselves as such and are willing to
> >> allow themselves as being such on the list.
> >>
> >> Wow, there sure must be alot of collectors and scientists on the list.
> >>
> >> How cool is that?
> >>
> >> Thanks, Chummies!
> >>
> >> Dave Gunning
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> >
> 
> 
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Received on Sat 09 Oct 2010 01:34:08 PM PDT