[meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps

From: Jeff Grossman <jgrossman_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2010 22:16:41 -0400
Message-ID: <4CD36909.7050508_at_usgs.gov>

Adam and all,

Help me out in my research here. I'm not able to find the "Collecting
rocks for landscaping..." quote in the Code of Federal Regulations at
all. However, this is in CFR Title 43, in the BLM section, meaning it
has the effect of law.

Sec. 8365.1-5 Property and resources.

     (a) On all public lands, unless otherwise authorized, no person
shall;
     (1) Willfully deface, disturb, remove or destroy any personal
property, or structures, or any scientific, cultural, archaeological or
historic resource, natural object or area;
     (2) Willfully deface, remove or destroy plants or their parts, soil,
rocks or minerals, or cave resources, except as permitted under
paragraph (b) or (c) of this paragraph; or
     (3) Use on the public lands explosive, motorized or mechanical
devices, except metal detectors, to aid in the collection of specimens
permitted under paragraph (b) or (c) of this paragraph.
     (b) Except on developed recreation sites and areas, or where
otherwise prohibited and posted, it is permissible to collect from the
public lands reasonable amounts of the following for noncommercial
purposes:
     (1) Commonly available renewable resources such as flowers, berries,
nuts, seeds, cones and leaves;
     (2) Nonrenewable resources such as rocks, mineral specimens, common
invertebrate fossils and semiprecious gemstones;
     (3) Petrified wood as provided under subpart 3622 of this title;
     (4) Mineral materials as provided under subpart 3604; and
     (5) Forest products for use in campfires on the public lands. Other
collection of forest products shall be in accordance with the provisions
of Group 5500 of this title.
     (c) The collection of renewable or nonrenewable resources from the
public lands for sale or barter to commercial dealers may be done only
after obtaining a contract or permit from an authorized officer in
accordance with part 3600 or 5400 of this chapter.

[48 FR 36384, Aug. 10, 1983; 67 FR 68778, Nov. 13, 2002]

I would say that meteorites are covered under section (a)(1) as
objects/resources of scientific interest. It seems possible to me that
Adam's quotation derives from a BLM attempt to define "reasonable
amounts" of rocks under (b)(2). But I would argue that this section
doesn't apply to meteorites at all due to their coverage under (a)(1).

I am an amateur at reading laws and regs. Somebody correct me if I am
wrong.

Jeff


On 2010-11-04 7:35 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
> And being that it is federal public land, we have the right to remove 250 lbs of
> rocks a year without a permit. Anything that hinders this right goes against the
> laws our legislators set forth. Requiring a permit in Washinton and Oregon is a
> clear design on our liberty.
>
> ***********************************************************************************
>
>
> Collecting Limits
> Collecting rocks for landscaping and other personal uses is allowed without a
> permit, as long as the use is non commercial and no mechanized equipment is
> used (other than a car or pickup truck). A permit is not needed if you limit
> your collecting 25 pounds plus one piece per day, not to exceed 250 pounds in
> one calendar year, and no specimen greater than 250 pounds may be collected
> without a special permit. The material must be for personal use only and shall
>
> not be sold or bartered to commercial dealers. Taking rock from stockpiles is
> not allowed.
> **********************************************************************************
>
>
>
> Link to BLM Site:
> http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/elcentro/recreation/rocks.html
>
>
> Happy hunting while you still can,
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Jeff Grossman<jgrossman at usgs.gov>
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 4:24:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Secret BLM maps
>
> Although I agree that an outright ban on meteorite collecting is not the
> best policy, I fail to see what rights you think are being violated.
> Are you saying that people have a constitutional right to do anything
> and everything they want on federal lands without regulation? I don't
> think this is a civil rights issue; it is a public land-use policy issue.
>
> Jeff
>
> On 2010-11-04 7:05 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
>> I agree that these heritage sites should be protected. My only concern is how
>> BLM field agents convey information. They are public servants and should tell
>> the truth. If they do not know the laws, then they should simply state this
>> instead of making things up. I get a different message from every one I have
>> talked to in regards to meteorite hunting. Washington and Oregon are now
>> definitely off limits and there are no permits for meteorite hunting
> available.
>> This is a simple way to violet somebodies rights; Tell them they need a permit
>> and then don't issue any.
>>
>> This is a sore subject for me since I can no longer search on public lands in
>> my
>> ex-state of Washington Thus never achieving a goal I set. Meteorites are now
>> considered treasure and will be protected as such in some areas.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>>
>> Adam
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>

-- 
Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman       phone: (703) 648-6184
US Geological Survey          fax:   (703) 648-6383
954 National Center
Reston, VA 20192, USA

Received on Thu 04 Nov 2010 10:16:41 PM PDT