[meteorite-list] Meteors, by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925

From: Shawn Alan <photophlow_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 20:01:55 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <864692.11674.qm_at_web113615.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>

Hi Bob, AL, and Listers :)
?
Thank you for your comments on this topic. The book that is in question has been posted on the Internet?by a?gentlemen that married Dr LaPaz daughter. He is handling Dr LaPaz estate and in 2001 found over 500g of Norton County meteorite in Dr LaPaz basement?which 320g was taped by Dr LaPaz in fear of the fragment fracturing( I have 3 images that he sent me and if anyone wants to see the images I can email them to you if you like). Last month I had purchased 2.3s fragment with?photo copy's of new paper clippings and a photo copy of a hand written letter from Dr LaPaz.?Also the individual had told me about the book he uploaded to the Internet?and from the email he sent me he stated Dr LaPaz would sign his name in his book. Signing your name on something you own?and doing a signature for a book sign?are two different things. One is lose and the other is tight. Now its funny Mike hasn't stated where he got the book from with the signature.The book
 that is listed on the Internet is from Dr LaPaz's personal library collection, making?that book from the?main source. Also when you look at the signature and the signing there are a few similarities between the two. Here is a link to the signature and the signing by Dr LaPaz.
?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/48262799 at N03/4422192244/
?
Take a look at the 2 L's?and take a look at?where the?L curves. At each instance with both L's the curves are similar with their curves. This can be further seen with the P's on the top of the P, the arch?lines up perfectly on the upward?angle which that angle is also indicative with the L?angles as well. When looking at the bottom of the?P's they both point at?an inward angle. Also notice the relation of where the?P's start to the relation of?P's arch. In both P's?one can notice that the proportions are congruent. Another observation I pointed out that I think is damning is look at the P in the left corner and do you notice at the end of the P how it arches up? Now take a look at the signature and look at the end of the P and see the arches and almost closes cause its a signature.
?
Now I would like to move to the A's. In both hand writing samples I cant pen point any similarities between the two on how they are written in style. But I did notice a pattern?between the two on how they're written. Now take a look at both A's from the samples. Notice that the A's in La are different in respects to the?A's in Paz. That pattern is suggestive in both writing samples where you see that one?A?are different to?one another.
?
Lets move on to the Z. This one was a hard one but after writing to you and having a nights rests I noticed the shapes?are similar. One is tight and the other is vary loose. Where the z intersects the distance at the intersection point is similar in respects to proportion.
?
Now what you two , I mean three are saying, if a?women wrote in the book that is listed on the internet http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/11388383_xtf3A#800281414_E7khp
?
why are there alot of similarities between the two examples of writings? I would find it very odd that there would be any similarities at all.?Now?lets say that the?signature is from a book signing that?Mike personal went to and got?the signature from Dr LaPaz, I would?feel that Mikes signature would validate as a good source and would confirm that the two samples have similarities. And if?it wasn't signed in front of Mike the signature as an example could be in question. But again, Mike is an expert in historical books and?signatures, so I would have to agree with you Bob and Al that the signature Mike provided is by Dr LaPaz. In turn we can take that example listed by Mike and compare and it to the signed name by Dr LaPaz in the other book see?some good similarities in the two writing styles.
?
Thank you
Shawn Alan??
?

[meteorite-list] Meteors, by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished in 1925almitt2 at localnet.com almitt2 at localnet.com
Wed Mar 10 21:11:57 EST 2010


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Hi Bob,

Haven't had time to chime in on this but wanted to. I agree with your
statements. Especially in regard to Mike Jensen's knowledge on the
subject of meteorite books and signitures. He would be the first person
I would contact If I wondered about something in a meteorite book and
is a super knowledgable guy.

While he was being humble by saying he isn't an absolute expert, an
expert is someone who knows more than the typical person on a subject
and I would say that Mike is an expert as he has been dealing in books
for a long long time.

--AL Mitterling

Quoting Bob Loeffler <bobl at peaktopeak.com>:


> Hi Shawn,

>

> It's a well-known fact (there have been many studies done on it) that women

> usually write with a curvier (larger loop) style than men do. That is what

> Mike was referring to and I completely agree with him. The signature in

> your book was probably done by a woman, but yes, there is still a

> *possibility* that it was written by a man.

>

> Signing your name and writing your signature is the same thing. I'm not

> sure why you think they are different. If I sign my name, that is my

> signature. Maybe you are talking about when a person casually writes

> his/her name on something, but most people who do that will print their name

> instead of using cursive writing. And then each letter is usually written

> separately instead of them flowing together. In both books, the "a" and "z"

> in "Paz" flow together, so that is probably not his version of printing his

> name in cursive. Women write in cursive a lot more than men do, but I don't

> know what it was like for LaPaz' generation.

>

> Or maybe you are talking about the guy's first name which is in Mike's book

> but not in yours? But that doesn't matter in this case. Looking at the

> last name, it's very obvious that the "L" is very different between Mike's

> and your books' signatures/names, so two different people wrote those names.

>

> You and the guy selling the book could very well be correct in saying that

> this is LaPaz' signature or written name, but there is no way to know for

> sure. The way people write changes over time (especially from childhood to

> adulthood), but major changes (like that "L") are not usually changed during

> adulthood. Mike has been dealing with historical books for a long time, so

> I would trust his word on this subject more than most people's.

>

> If that really is LaPaz' signature, then that (and the notations) would

> increase the value of the book for some collectors. Other collectors, of

> course, could care less.

>

> Regards,

>

> Bob

>

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com

> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Alan

> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 3:05 AM

> To: meteoriteplaya at gmail.com; tricottetcoll at live.com

> Cc: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com

> Subject: [meteorite-list] Meteors,by C. P. Oliver an original copy pubished

> in 1925

>

> Hi Mike and List

> ?

> Clearly I find it funny that your saying your book is the real deal and the

> one posted?on the link isn't from him. Now why do you think yours is the

> real deal? You never explained where you got the book with his signature,

> now did you. Now I find this to be funny. You state that

> ?

> "Hopefully you will agree that these were not done by the same person.

> To my eye it looks like yours was done by a female as the letters have

> such large loops."? you also go on to say ......

> ?

> "It in no way makes them an expert in recognizing his signature. I

> really takes a side by side comparison to do this."

> ?

> O really. so?when did you become a hand writing analysis expert? You said

> yourself the the image on the website I posted on the List?was done by a

> female. How do you know that it was written by a female? Also you even said

> yourself

> ?

> "Obviously you believe that by being related to someone you could

> recognize their signature expertly. I do not agree with you. I would

> have to have my a known copy of my wife's signature to compare it to

> another to be certain it is hers."

> ?

> Again Mike, here you go into saying that?you wouldn't be able to tell by

> your wife's signature unless you had copies to compare?it?to. So how does it

> give you a right to say that?the signing was done by a female on the link I

> provided to the list???

> ?

> http://www.smugmug.com/gallery/11388383_xtf3A#800281414_E7khp

> ?

> But I think your over looking something that I have stated. I have been

> communicating with the individual that posted the book and he emailed me

> back and said .....

> ?

> ?

> Hi Shawn:

> ?

> ???? Dr. LaPaz often wrote his name in a book as soon

> as he received it.? That is his writing "LaPaz") on the inside

> front?cover of Meteors.? All notations in the book (I think they

> are all in red ink) are his.

> ?

> Ok, the key words is Dr LaPaz?wrote his name in his books. Now do you get

> what I said about....

>

> "Lastly, another thing to remember, signing your name in a book and

> doing a signature for some fan can hold different signatures?" and you say

> ....

> ?

> "Sorry don't really understand your point here so I cannot comment on it."

> ?

> So lets say I buy a book and?I sign my name in it. Now I wouldnt do a

> signature in the book because signatures are hard to read, I would SIGN my

> name in the book instead. Now if I was going to do?a signature on a

> document, I would use my signature, or signature to sign someones book. I

> think you have have done this before, signing someting with your name on it.

> Now I have something for you to look at and Listers

> ?

> ?

> http://www.flickr.com/photos/48262799 at N03/4422192244/

> ?

> Ok now what I did is?I took your signature which is the bottom and took the

> signing of his name from the website and superimposed them and scaled down

> the size. Now its kinda odd to me when you look at them superimposed some

> simularites?show up.?The size and points were where the the letter meet

> match up. Look at the?L and the P they both have a simulare shapes. But this

> is?the ticker, look at the?P in the?left corner and see the little hook that

> ends at the?P and now look at the hook that ends on your P what do?I see a

> hook but its tighter. I would find this?very odd that a women that you

> stated wrote in the book would have very simular writing patterns as Dr

> LaPaz signature. What I am concluding and had concluded before I saw your

> one signature is that maybe :)??another thing to remember, signing your name

> in a book and doing a signature for some fan can hold different signatures?"

>

> ?

> Now with this said I would find this book rare in a since that he signed his

> name in the book and everyone else including you have multipal signatures by

> Dr LaPaz. Now what would be more unquie,?a book he personal owned and

> signed, which has mathmatical notations he wrote, and where the book came

> from his estate, or a book he signed with his signature for a fan?

> ?

> Thank you

> Shawn Alan

>

>

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Received on Wed 10 Mar 2010 11:01:55 PM PST