[meteorite-list] Claimed pairings

From: Greg Stanley <stanleygregr_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 16:48:58 -0700
Message-ID: <SNT117-W2926CBB7F271731FEFBD62D2DF0_at_phx.gbl>

Carl:

Does the 334 grm piece have a provisional number?

Who determined that NWA 5400 and NWA 5363 are paired?

NWA 5363 is listed as a Brachinite.

Greg S.

----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2010 19:17:32 -0400
> From: cdtucson at cox.net
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; damoclid at yahoo.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Claimed pairings
>
> Richard,
> All due respect here.
> If you are hunting and you find a meteorite. You look around and
> you find more of the same. You can almost be certain it is from the same fall. I
> mean realistically what are the odds of finding any meteorite? Now calculate
> the odds of finding two different meteorites together. Now we are at
> astronomical odds against.
> Yes, Almahatta sitta proves material from the same
> fall can be very different but, testing confirmed it is still from the same fall.
> So, in most cases it is easy to consider pairings based on find locations.
> Yes,
> there have been numerous cases of totally unrelated meteorites found together
> but, they usually are ruled out as paired right away visually. As an example.
> Snyder Hill was found while looking for Cat Mountain but, they looked totally
> different visually. And therefore ruled out as being paired. that said. The info
> put forth so far is as follows.
> This is a rough outline of the facts as presented so far;
> !. Meteorites are found by Mbarek..
> 2. Mbarek distributes some of them including NWA 5400 to Greg.
> 3. Mbarek passes. ( Allah rest his soul)
> 4. Estate of Mbarek retains 334 grams of same find material.
> 5. 334 grams from Mbarek gets offered by Ali and is highly sought.
> 6. This gets confirmed by Habibi Aziz.
> 7. Aziz shows copies of emails from Jambon ( in french) which confirm it is paired with NWA 5400 and NWA 5363.And O-isotopes were doone.
> 7. Passing of Mbarek adds to confusion but, this is material that originated from the same guy we
> are talking about here.
> 8. Pairing may not be official until isotopes are done but hardly a gamble here.
> Although this will get science more material (nothing wrong with that) .
> According to Abibi Isotopic
> results have been done and confirm this is not a brachenite . Even though it looks like one.
> Requiring tests that can only be done by certain people puts a huge and possibly
> an unnecessary burden on finders job description.
> It's a bit like finding a body with a bullet in the head and saying the cause of
> death is unknown until the autopsy.
> Do we really need to wait for an autopsy? Sure we do as a formality but, that
> does not change the results of the race. Either way he died of a bullet in the
> head.
> Ipso facto, This material is paired unless someone is lying. If people are
> telling the truth then this is paired and asking for more isotopes is mere
> confirmation of a fact we already know.
> I hate the thought of having to cut up every meteorite just to prove it came
> from the same fall.
> Before they discovered Calcalong creek amongst the millbillies it was easy to
> find a nice uncut Millbillillie. Not so now a days. Most have been cut to see if
> they match calcalong Creek. To me this is a shame.
> Again this is said with the utmost respect to everybody. This is just my opinion.
> I would hate to go to a known strewnfield and then have to jump through hoops to prove it came from where I found it.
> Part of this email is from a post that did not go through to list before.
>
>
> Carl
>
>
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> Meteoritemax
>
>
> ---- Richard Kowalski wrote:
>> Not being a professional meteoriticist, I would assume that any meteorite claimed to be paired with another needs to be studied by qualified scientists. From what I understand it is always preferable to have the scientist who did the original classification to study any meteorites submitted for possible pairing because they are 1, familiar with the material, 2, have material used for the original classification on hand for comparison and 3, are able to use the same instruments used for the original classification for any additional material being submitted.
>>
>> After the material has been studied and found to be paired,I would imaging that there is some peer reviewed process to announce the pairing, is there not?
>>
>> We've seen with Alamhata Sitta that you can have very different classifications from the same fall and because of this extensive studies needed to be made to confirm that the stone were from the same fall, even though they were all found in the same area.
>>
>> It also seems to me that anyone claiming a pairing has the responsibility to provide samples for testing and is also responsible for all costs associated with this testing. The onerous of proof goes to the person claiming they have paired material. Until this scientific proof, that can and is peer reviewed for validity of the procedures used to determine the said pairing, any and all claims of a pairing should be rejected outright and in their entirety.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Richard Kowalski
>> Full Moon Photography
>> IMCA #1081
>>
>>
>>
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Received on Thu 17 Jun 2010 07:48:58 PM PDT