[meteorite-list] Technical question about NomCom and Bulletin

From: cdtucson at cox.net <cdtucson_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 2010 11:40:50 -0400
Message-ID: <20100606114050.64BKR.654214.imail_at_fed1rmwml44>

List,
I hope Ted Bunch does not mind me borrowing his quote of a friend of his once again here.
"A meteorite does not care where it lands". ( please Jason we have already heard your take on this)
As Michael said. The society is merely an information source not "fascist pigs".
If meteorites are in fact a good source of scientific information then why should politics stand in the way?
When we pull our heads out of the sand. At the end of the day, the knowledge acquired by these rocks is what is important. The rest is all. Well, the rest.
If not left this way the industry would take several steps backwards.
This because we do need a non political source to turn to for authentication. Otherwise these ebayers selling river rocks as lunar's could simply say "these are real but not officially recognized by ......."" NomCom does not recognize these but they are real".
What a mess that would be.

On quite a different note;
I think nomenclature needs to publish a set on guidelines for classifiers to follow and allow and accept more peoples opinions and allow then to classify there own meteorites. .
In other words if Jason says he found an ordinary chondrite he should be able to submit it himself without having to have a SEM evaluation. As stated this is an ordinary chondrite why do we need a scientist to tell us that?
Please understand what I am saying is that it does not take a Ph,D to determine this. Marvin Killgore is a perfect example. He is allowed to classify meteorites and without a Doctoral degree.
Why him? Is there anybody else in his same situation?
Again, I think he is qualified so, I see no problem with his situation.
I also think there are dozens of others like him. Equally qualified to make the call.
This would alleviate a huge burden on our scientists and allow them to only have to work on chondrites they deem relevant.
another two cents.
Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax
---- Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote: 
> Hello Michael, All,
> 
> >> by approving those meteorites that have been illegally exported,
> >> the Nomenclature Committee is in effect financially supporting the
> >> illegal export of meteorites from countries where it is prohibited.
> > ? ? ? ?The Nomenclature Committee would be performing the function
> > exactly as it defines itself to be, as Jeff stated, " Note that the
> > activities of the Society only involve dissemination of information.
> 
> Right, but part of the issue, as I stated in my post, is that the
> objectives of the Meteoritical Society, in this case, are being
> determined as we debate this issue.  You note that the function of the
> committee is as it has been written.  The point of my posit was that,
> as Jeff stated, this is actually a somewhat open issue at the moment.
> 
> >>What we're saying is that the Nomenclature committee, because they
> >>Provide a service to dealers by verifying and providing an easy way to
> >>authenticate a given meteorite, which makes them easier to sell,
> >>should perhaps not allow the submission of illegally exported
> >>materials of great scientific value. ?The work on them can still be
> >>done by labs if they choose to do it, and the papers will still be
> >>written, but the service provided by the Nomenclature Committee of
> >>having this information posted online would not be done, so that the
> >>private sector would...well, it would be a much riskier thing to buy.
> > ? ? ? ?You seem to be implying that information, academic and otherwise,
> > Should be withheld because someone may - or even does ?- use that
> > Information in profiting in a way in violation of some laws of some
> > Countries.
> > ? ? ? ?Ah, this sounds a uncomfortably closer to fascism than to academic
> > freedom.
> 
> As I said, the information would never be withheld.  Studies and
> reports on stones, if institutions wanted to pursue them, would be
> performed and published; neither the Meteoritical Society nor the
> Nomenclature Society can tell any lab what to do -- but stones that
> had been illegally exported would not become officially named
> meteorites.  I repeated myself several times in my last post.  I'm not
> going to go over it repeatedly here.
> 
> >> So, by approving those meteorites that have been illegally exported,
> >> the Nomenclature Committee is in effect financially supporting the
> >> illegal export of meteorites from countries where it is prohibited.
> >> Think about it; if the Committee/Society were to go through with this,
> >> no one would get any new official (or provisional?) numbers for Omani
> >> stones. ?It would be harder to sell them as unnumbered
> >> Shisr/Dhofar/etc stones, or something along those lines.
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?The premise is completely off to begin with. The Nomenclature
> > Committee never has or ever will "approve" anything. They record
> > Information by assigning names appropriate to given falls or finds.
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?Perhaps we should burn all the art books and archaeology texts
> > Because art and artifact thieves benefit a great deal from the information
> > Contained there in.
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?Jason, I always perceived you as highly intelligent, but the
> > arguments you present in this instance are academically indefensible.
> > Any curtailment of or hiding of information is tantamount to a step
> > Backwards toward the dark ages - certainly, it is at the very least a
> > Form of censorship.
> > ? ? ? ? ? ?Again, perhaps I am missing something here, but what you have
> > Stated does not lead me to believe that is the case.
> 
> Well, you cut out about 8/10 of my post.  Perhaps you should reread it.
> Regards,
> Jason
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Received on Sun 06 Jun 2010 11:40:50 AM PDT


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