[meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King ofAngrites" for sale -...

From: GREG LINDH <geeg48_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 19:22:44 -0700
Message-ID: <BLU125-W8DFE51E99AA17E759D5A6C9A40_at_phx.gbl>

    Hi Eric,
 
  I don't want to get drawn into another long debate, but I'd like to make a couple of observations. You wrote:
 
  "Funny, I never realized there was "proof" of what faith believes."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
  Well Eric, by definition, faith doesn't require proof, but often times matters of faith have quite a bit of evidence (a type of proof) to support them. I could give examples, but I would be wrong to bring them up on this List, and if I did I would be chastised by most of the members here.
 
  In your email, you not only accuse faith of not having any proofs, but you also say that it is only made up of, "conjecture and subjective interpretation of observation."
 
  Well Eric, to be honest, I find that much of today's science, and the science of the past, is also made up of much "conjecture and subjective interpretation of observation." It's not supposed to be like this, but much of science has a very religious feel to it. Science is supposed to examine data, evidence and facts, and then follow that data, evidence, facts wherever they may lead. Scientists are supposed to have completely open minds. They are not supposed to have *any agendas*. Unfortunately, all too many scientists do have agendas (presuppositions). They view the evidence through their own biased lenses. They view the evidence through their own type of "faith lense".
 
  Mark wrote the following to you, "science has a lot more 'faith' to it than most people realise!"
 
  I agree with him, and I think Mark Twain would also agree with him.
 
 
  With respect,
 
  Greg Lindh
 
 
 
 
> Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 01:00:40 -0700
> From: eric at meteoritesusa.com
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King ofAngrites" for sale -...
>
> Funny, I never realized there was "proof" of what faith believes. Only
> conjecture and subjective interpretation of observation.
>
> Eric
>
>
> On 7/23/2010 12:52 AM, Mark Ford wrote:
>> Good quote.
>>
>> I also like:
>>
>> "Science is almost the same as faith, but just sometimes, once in a
>> while, the level of required proof is taken up a notch"
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of GREG
>> LINDH
>> Sent: 23 July 2010 04:31
>> To: gmhupe at htn.net
>> Cc: meteorite-list
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King
>> ofAngrites" for sale -...
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello Greg,
>>
>> I've always loved science, but I do think that some in the scientific
>> community tend to stretch things a bit thin sometimes. All kinds of
>> theories about all kinds of things are thrown around with little to
>> support them. This reminds me of a quote by Mark Twain. The quote
>> follows:
>>
>> "There is something fascinating about science. One gets such
>> wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of
>> fact."
>>
>> Something to think about....
>>
>>
>> Greg Lindh
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: gmhupe at htn.net
>>> To: DRose at emersonhosp.org
>>> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 20:51:24 -0400
>>> CC: jgrossman at usgs.gov; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King of
>>>
>> Angrites" for sale -...
>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> Isn't 'science' just that, "Science"... Ever evolving as ground truth
>>> comes in? Without open minds and hard work by many dedicated
>>> individuals, 'science' would not get very far, especially in the world
>>>
>>
>>> of meteortitics! Much of the initial work and/or thoughts are educated
>>>
>>
>>> suggestions which are meant to excite others in rational and sometimes
>>>
>>
>>> heated discussions, no matter what scientific focus is being
>>> discussed. I won't even bring up the evolution talks of the past...
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Greg Hupe
>>>
>>> On Jul 22, 2010, at 8:00 AM, "Rose, David MD"<DRose at emersonhosp.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I agree with Jeff completely. Same thing happens in Medicine. And
>>>> even when the data is peer reviewed, that doesn't mean that it is
>>>> rock solid truth. It's a process of continual evaluation and
>>>> refinement.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com [mailto:meteorite-
>>>> list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Grossman
>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2010 7:40 AM
>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King of
>>>> Angrites" for sale -...
>>>>
>>>> Yikes! Abstracts to meetings are not peer reviewed!
>>>>
>>>> jeff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 7/21/2010 10:05 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Jason and List,
>>>>>
>>>>> I do not refute Melinda Hutson's article that was never peer
>>>>> reviewed and
>>>>> contains several errors according to the classifying scientists. I
>>>>> asked
>>>>> scientists about the article and they stated, it is obvious that
>>>>> she didn't read
>>>>> the original peer reviewed abstract carefully, even mistaking the
>>>>> type of
>>>>> petrology that was discussed using formulas that simply do not
>>>>> apply to the
>>>>> texture NWA 2999 exhibits.
>>>>>
>>>>> There were several prestigious coauthors listed in the original
>>>>> paper; Unique
>>>>> Angrite NWA 2999: The Case For Samples From Mercury.
>>>>>
>>>>> Who am I to argue with the world's best? I will keep an open mind
>>>>> and hope for
>>>>> some ground truth that will hopefully settle it once and for all.
>>>>> I think the
>>>>> authors were making a point of having an open mind and that the
>>>>> subject should
>>>>> be debated possibly stimulated more scientific interest in
>>>>> Angrites. It took a
>>>>> long time to win over the scientific community that some of these
>>>>> meteorites
>>>>> were actually from Mars. It was debated to death and now nobody
>>>>> argues about
>>>>> the Shergottite parent body any more.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Adam
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Received on Fri 23 Jul 2010 10:22:44 PM PDT