[meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King of Angrites"for sale - AD
From: star_wars_collector at yahoo.com <star_wars_collector_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 19:41:15 +0000 Message-ID: <1671169748-1279827646-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-953296822-_at_bda337.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> No, from what I understand, there is a good chance that in 2011 we may have some good information from Messenger that just might help to answer the question of the angrite/Mercury connection. Also, since the paper mentioned was done, several others have been published that seem to support a possible mercury origin. From my research, there is a significant amount more work that has been published that seems to support the theory then that dispute it. Recently they discovered a great deal more iron on mercury then previously thought. The Nov 08 astronomy mag has information on angrites and the mercury connection and while the author does not seem to fully support the idea, its a great read. Hope everyone is good, Greg C Sent on the Sprint? Now Network from my BlackBerry? -----Original Message----- From: Thunder Stone <stanleygregr at hotmail.com> Sender: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 12:29:21 To: <photophlow at yahoo.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King of Angrites" for sale - AD List: I hope NWA 2999 is from Mercury - would be nice.? Do we have rocks from Mars?? Didn't scientists determine the meteorites are from Mars by measuring the isotopes and matched the atmosphere on Mars.? Do we actually need samples from Mercury to determine if these Angrites are from Mercury? Greg S. ---------------------------------------- > Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 20:09:40 -0700 > From: photophlow at yahoo.com > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King of Angrites" for sale - AD > > Hello Listers, > > I would have to say NWA 2999 and the other Angrites that might have a connection to Mercury in fairness is speculative, like with the rest of the meteorites that can?t be traced back to a parent body because of the lack of physical evidence. This was also true with the Moon and Mars meteorites, but we have samples taken from the surface to prove otherwise. > > But in all in fairness there is good evidence that points to the likelihood that NWA 2999 and other Angrites ?could be? in fact from Mercury. > > This argument can be supported by an article which Jason posted in one of his posts on this topic of NWAs from Mercury. > > CORONAS AND SYMPLECTITES IN PLUTONIC ANGRITE NWA 2999 AND IMPLICATIONS FOR > MERCURY AS THE ANGRITE PARENT BODY. S. M. Kuehner1, A. J. Irving1, T. E. Bunch2, J. H. Wittke2,G. M. Hup? and A. C. Hup?, 1Dept. of Earth & Space Sciences, University of Washington, Seattle, WA 98195, > (kuehner at u.washington.edu), 3Dept. of Geology, Northern Arizona University, Flagstaff, AZ 86011. > > In the research article, the authors make good points about the connection that NWA 2999 and Mercury has, and that the NWA meteorite have gone through a vertical tectonics process which occurs on Earth and Mercury. This observation can suggest that NWA 2999 could be from Mercury but the only way to prove that NWA 2999 is indeed from Mercury is to send a probe to the surface and bring back actual rocks samples from the surface and subsurface. Down below is the abstract that suggests this process to be evident in the connection with NWA 2999 and Mercury. > > The Mercury Connection: Papike et al. [9] suggested that angrites might be samples from Mercury based on volatile depletion, and systematic of plagioclase compositions and Fe/Mn ratios in mafic minerals. The spectacular symplectite and corona textures in NWA 2999 evidently require a > parent body capable of several kilometers of vertical tectonics. Of the silicate planets, only Earth and Mercury are known to have appropriate tectonic processes. Similar textures are well-known in deepseated > terrestrial plutonic rocks (including mantle peridotites [10] ) exhumed by continental plate tectonic collisions, but on Mercury this could be accomplished by thrust faulting, for which there is > strong evidence [11]. Dynamical calculations [12] predict that several percent of material ejected from Mercury could reach Earth, so it would not be too surprising to find Hermean meteorites. Additional > arguments supporting this conjecture were given by Irving et al. [1]. > > Shawn Alan > > > [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King of Angrites" for sale - AD > Jason Utas meteoritekid at gmail.com > Wed Jul 21 20:13:36 EDT 2010 > ? Previous message: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King of Angrites" for sale - AD > ? Next message: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King of Angrites" for sale - AD > ? Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] >________________________________________ > Hello Greg, All, > I managed to turn up these pages: > > http://www.meteoritestudies.com/protected_DORBIGNY.HTM > > http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/nwa-2934-angrite-meteorite-possible-nwa-2999-3164-1 > > http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2001/pdf/1876.pdf > > So, NWA 2836, 2999, 3164 (all three supposedly paired), D'Orbigny, and > Asu88 all display similar translucent crystals. > > Angrites are some of the rarest material on earth - that should stand > alone. Trying to put one in some way "above" the others doesn't make > much sense to me. > > Without getting into this too deeply - researchers have been trying to > find a meteorite from another one of the terrestrial planets (other > than Mars) for decades. > Trying to cram a square peg into a round hole ain't the way to do it. > > http://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1995Metic..30..269L > > http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1995LPI....26..865L > > http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20070021589_2007019150.pdf > > In my opinion, it's a little much to claim that a meteorite came from > a single parent body based only three main points: > 1) Both are depleted in sodium and are highly refractive (so were > other parent bodies that formed in the region). > 2) There's an observed feature (corona around a plagioclase crystal) > that may have been formed by tectonic action on its parent body...or > some other form of decompression or change in conditions while > crystallization was taking place... > 3) And, yeah, they're from a differentiated body. > > http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2006/pdf/1344.pdf > > To be frank, the arguments *against* the origins of Angrites being > Mercury are significantly better. > 1) They cooled too soon for them to be form Mercury. > 2) They have too much iron. > 3) The scarping on Mercury isn't present in large enough examples to > explain the features observed in Angrites. > > The things that rule a Mercutian origin out for Angrites are much more > basic, sweeping sort of problems. Their general composition and > crystallization ages are *wrong,* based on our understanding of how > things formed in the early solar system and the composition of > Mercury's crust (this is big-picture stuff). And compare that to the > fact that we have two chemical/petrographic features that suggest that > they're from Mercury; the whole differentiated body thing seems kind > of overblown at this point. We now know of *many* ungrouped > achondrites that appear to have come from large differentiated bodies. > Very circumstantial evidence. > > In my opinion, it's like selling pieces of martian meteorites under > the banner of "remains of life may have been found in ALH 84001, so > this meteorite I'm selling you may contain traces of martian life." > > I mean, I guess you could claim that...and yet, reputable dealers don't.... > I have the feeling that this whole 'Angrites are from Mercury' problem > is getting overlooked a bit because there's no media frenzy of 'LIFE' > surrounding it. Either way, the critical literature seems to carry > *significantly* more weight, from a relatively objective observer's > point of view. > > I've heard similar comments from various well-regarded researchers. > Check your May 2008 Meteorite magazines. > Melinda Hutson notes that "Four of the eight arguments given in the > original abstract on NWA 2999 actually argue against Mercury as the > Angrite parent body." In fact, she goes on to repudiate every single > point, relegating them to, at best, circumstantial evidence. > > In my opinion, dealers need to stop pushing Angrites as being from > Mercury. They're rare enough to warrant being paid whatever for them > anyways - compare them to NWA 011, Ibitira, etc. But cooler because > we know more about them. > Insubstantial claims regarding their origins need not be made. > > Yep, got carried away. Well, they're damn cool and I know more about > them now. Time well spent. > > Regards, > Jason > > On Wed, Jul 21, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Greg Catterton > wrote: > >> Hi to all, I am happy to announce that NWA 6291 is an awesome and very rare angrite. > >> > >> I have several very nice slices for sale including one of the 4 translucent slices. After extensive research, I have not been able to come across any angrite that has offered translucent crystals and slices like you would find in a pallasite other then this one. > >> > >> This is likely paired with NWA 2999, but due to its unique appearance, it stands above and beyond 2999 and any of its pairings enough to raise the question of if it was actually paired or not. NWA 2999 and its pairings are also unique to the angrite class, which makes this one even more special! > >> > >> Then there is the possible Mercury connection... how cool is it that this material is thought to be ejecta from the planet Mercury? > >> > >> You can see some of the material available for sale here: > >> http://www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com/Angrite_Meteorites.php > >> > >> I also have a very limited amount of thin sections that are very generous is size. Rather then offer a small limited sample for section, I choose to get nice portions that showed the incredible nature of this material at its best. > >> > >> Samples for sale are from micros up to the 44 gram main mass. > >> > >> Contact me for price and more photos - I am still offering a discount for research use. > >> > >> Greg Catterton > >> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com > >> IMCA member 4682 > >> On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites > >> On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites > >> > >> > >> > >>______________________________________________ > >> Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > >> Meteorite-list mailing list > >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > >> > > >________________________________________ > ? Previous message: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King of Angrites" for sale - AD > ? Next message: [meteorite-list] Its official! NWA 6291 "The King of Angrites" for sale - AD > ? Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ] >________________________________________ > More information about the Meteorite-list mailing list > >______________________________________________ > Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list _________________________________________________________________ The New Busy think 9 to 5 is a cute idea. Combine multiple calendars with Hotmail. http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multicalendar&ocid=PID28326::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_5 ______________________________________________ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Received on Thu 22 Jul 2010 03:41:15 PM PDT |
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