[meteorite-list] Lorton, Smithsonian and "cool" scientists thinking

From: cdtucson at cox.net <cdtucson_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:35:07 -0500
Message-ID: <20100129163507.IAHX6.456910.imail_at_fed1rmwml45>

Steve,
Not to knock the Smithsonian but, . If you look back at the history of the way the Carlton (the other Tucson Iron with the Tucson Ring in the Smithsonian) was acquired. It adds yet another dimension to the story.

A good argument could be made that The Carlton Meteorite was actually stolen and illegally seized by Colonel Carlton,
 The Following is a quote from "Anvils from Heaven"
;
"Seized and sent to San Francisco as a memorial to the march of his California column into Arizona.
 It was irrelevant whether the black smith Ramon Pacheco- who had found his anvil in the mountains south of Tucson, brought the heavy mass to town and owned and used it in his trade."
Colonel Carlton seized and stole the meteorite , shipped it off to San Francisco and never did compensate Mr. Pacheco or the city of Tucson.
Jeff says not now but, did the Government (Smithsonian) have the right to steal private property back them?
 
Carl

--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax
---- MeteorHntr at aol.com wrote: 
> Hey List,
> 
> It was my understanding that a local news station was  called to the Lorton 
> doctor's office, and then that TV news crew  actually drove the meteorite 
> to the Smithsonian for verification. At  that time, it became obvious that it 
> was a genuine meteorite and then efforts by  the museum personnel were 
> started to acquire this specimen for the  museum.
> 
> In any case, when I arrived at the fall site the next day after  the story 
> broke, with a Meteorite Men camera crew on my heels, Smithsonian  personnel 
> were there at the fall site, which I thought was great.  You  can't blame 
> them for wanting to obtain the rock.  In fact, there would be  something wrong 
> if they didn't want to acquire it.
> 
> I will say that our  Meteorite Men producers made extensive attempts to 
> gain permission from the  Smithsonian for me to come to the U.S. National 
> Collection with a camera crew  and shoot footage of Earth's newest alien visitor 
> to appear in one of our  upcoming February episodes.  If the Lorton story 
> would have played out big  enough, it could have become its own episode, most 
> likely running at the end of  February or in March of this year.   
> 
> We were willing to pay  the $1,000 shooting fee that the Smithsonian 
> normally charges, but we were  flatly denied ANY access to the Lorton specimen for 
> our TV show.  I am not  sure of all of the reasons, and who made the actual 
> decision to deny us and our  audience the opportunity to see it first hand, 
> but it seems that because the  Smithsonian now has their own new cable TV 
> network, and as such it is  now their policy to not give any competing TV 
> networks any access to shooting  any of their stuff in their collections.  
> 
> We also wanted to film  the actual Tucson Ring specimen, that is the 
> centerpiece in the National  Collection's public display, for this next 
> Wednesday's episode of Meteorite Men,  but we were flatly denied access a few months 
> ago to shoot that as well.   The February 3rd episode of Meteorite Men goes 
> into the historical story of the  Tucson Ring and of course, as the center 
> piece to our National Collection now on  display in Washington D.C., it's 
> final resting place is an important part of the  story of the greatest legend in 
> all of meteorites.  
> 
> However, I was  told that the "powers that be" at the Smithsonian did offer 
> to sell us a black  and white still photo of the Ring for $400 to use on 
> the show.  Nice of  them, wasn't it?  So, I don't think the problems we had 
> this last week were  related to the Lorton fall in particular, but seems to be 
> a bigger bureaucratic  problem elsewhere.
> 
> Apparently, other networks have had severe access  challenges lately in 
> wanting to get footage of other national treasures since  the Smithsonian cable 
> network was formed.  In our case it seems to be a  real shame as it would 
> have generated great PR for both our TV show and for the  Smithsonian and for 
> meteorites in general.  
> 
> Well, maybe one day, a  few years down the road, we can look forward to the 
> Smithsonian Cable TV Network  running their own TV show about meteorites in 
> general and maybe the Lorton  specifically and we will all get to see it 
> again.
> 
> It is not my intention  to paint the meteorite professionals at the 
> National Collection in a bad  light.  In fact, I would invite them to respond here 
> to give their side of  the story.  I have traded with the Smithsonian in the 
> past and I even sold  the Smithsonian some West specimens this last year.  
> While the process was  complicated and took a very long time, the people I 
> worked with were great, and  I consider them friends and colleagues in our 
> celestial quest.  I get the  feeling that the challenges we face are in other 
> departments other than  theirs.  
> 
> I do know there is still some prejudice against the  collecting community 
> among some in governmental employed academia.  There  are those that still 
> think all meteorites should be owned by governments and  that there should be 
> no private hunting for, collecting and owning of  meteorites.   There seems 
> to be a few dinosaurs holding onto the idea  that if someone earns a buck, 
> or God forbid -- a living, in the meteorite  business, it is a bad thing.  
> (Ironically, I am still looking for the list  of scientists and curators that 
> donate 100% of their paychecks each week back to  the institutions that 
> employ them, because they really believe it is wrong for  anyone to earn any 
> money from working with meteorites.)  And what is really  ironic, is that 
> people like Dr. Art Ehlmann at T.C.U., who really does all his  meteorite work 
> gratis, is on the top of the list of people who do their  meteorite work for 
> no pay AND he is also on the top of the list of scientists  that support our 
> collecting communities efforts. 
> 
> It is possible that there is an underlying fear that being associated  with 
> a TV show that features non-governmental collecting of meteorites could  
> somehow cast them in a negative light, especially among a handful of archaic  
> thinking colleagues that might scorn them at the Meteoritical Society  
> meetings.  Remember in junior high school, when a cool kid would talk with  a 
> non-cool kid, and all the other cool kids would shun their ill-acting  member?  
> Yea, I kind of think that "we are better than they are" thinking  might 
> still happen at some level amongst the "cool" scientists in the field. 
>  
> I am not sure who all still feels that way in the research community (maybe 
>  someone can make a list of them online?) as I have noticed a much more  
> enlightened view from more and more scientists as the years pass.   Hopefully 
> that haughty bias will eventually dissolve away as people realize the  
> positive contributions the private collector community makes to the science and  
> that we are all in this great and healthy symbiotic relationship  together.
> 
> Steve Arnold
> of Meteorite Men
>  
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Received on Fri 29 Jan 2010 04:35:07 PM PST