[meteorite-list] Hole in Red Rock Lounge Roof Still a Mystery?????

From: countdeiro at earthlink.net <countdeiro_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Jan 2010 13:02:32 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <27332950.1262800952829.JavaMail.root_at_wamui-haziran.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Hello Steve,

Thank you for the post on projectiles, propelling methods, velocities and their observable effects.

Based on my experience with things that go "boom" whilst in the US ARMY; where people I didn't know tried to incapacitate me with fast moving, heavy and often explosive objects and where I inspected holes in various materials including, but not limited to, kevlar, steel, glass, rubber, building materials and human beings, I feel I can contest some of your assumptions.

All objects, no matter what they are composed of, traveling above the speed of sound, will make an over pressure that can be detected by a person with normal hearing depending on distance, density and direction. The three "D's" we are taught in BSC (basic combat training). Remember the axiom, "You never hear the one that hits you"?

All military rifle, pistol and machine gun rounds, of any caliber, exceed the speed of sound and create an audible "snap". YouTube has dozens of fire fights where you can listen.

Some civilian rifle and pistol rounds, such as a .22 Long, or Short, and special application ammunition, are sub-sonic.

Many crew served, vehicle and aircraft delivered weapons such as artillery, anti-armor and area supression (SKEET and CANISTER) projectiles, are super-sonic in flight, or become so on contact with the target due to secondary charges.

I've looked at the photos and there is enough physical evidence (the damaged roof and attendant materials) for anyone with basic EOD skills to determine what was the outer composition of the object that made the defect, the weight, size and speed of the culprit, and from what direction did it arrive.

All the "no eyes on" witness statements are not reliable. They have a "scene" and that's where the investigation, if it hasn't already, should be conducted. The apparent fact that none of the impactor, except trace evidence on the damaged materials, has been found at the scene, makes the whole incident suspect.

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536

      

-----Original Message-----
>From: Steve Dunklee <sdunklee72520 at yahoo.com>
>Sent: Jan 6, 2010 5:00 AM
>To: meteoritecentral <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>, Gary Chase <garychase at live.com>
>Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hole in Red Rock Lounge Roof Still a Mystery?????
>
>gee boing bomb is not going to make a loud boom heard 3 blocks away. a friend of mine has a 3 inch cannon but the last time he shot it it disrupted cell phone service, almost caused several auto accidents and resulted in having his house surrounded by the local police who asked " Mr Boyde could you please come out of your house?" his projestile was a wad of wet newspapers.
> Chris Petersons explaination while having some merrit is not supported by scientific fact. sonic booms travel at the speed of sound and the time it takes the boom to reach you depends on your distance from the event, and a lot of other factors, like cannon balls traveling at over the speed of sound under 4 inches make no sonic boom. just a kind of whizzing whooshing sound. and smaller objects like bullets only make a buzzing sound like a bee even at 4 times the speed of sound.
> a meteorite falling over Colorado on the plane of the ecliptic at 11:35 pm would have been a near verticle fall only taking about 4 to 5 seconds from the time it entered earths atmosphere till it impacted with the ground. or exploded in the air. the shock wave in front of it would have created a vacume in its tail which may have allowed a 3 inch stone or iron to be cradled in an envelope trailing the main mass which was destroyed. in the same way that unburned gunpowder is found on the victims of gunshots at bullet velocities of 3k fps or more. the speed of sound you must know is only about 750 fps and depends on air pressure, humidity, temp, and the size of the object.
> there was an f15 eagle crashed near my house several years ago. a sonic boom traveling 3 minutes at the speed of sound by Mr Petersons reasoning at close to 7 seconds a mile should be heard around 25 miles away. there has to my knowlege never been heard a boom more than 9 miles away because the curve of the earth doesnt allow it to reach the ground.
> are there any volunteers from the list that want to sit on an artillary range and listen for the sonic boom of an incomming 144mm faster than sound shell? i hope not because they dont make one!
>cheers
>Steve
>
>--- On Tue, 1/5/10, Gary Chase <garychase at live.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Gary Chase <garychase at live.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hole in Red Rock Lounge Roof Still a Mystery?????
>> To: "meteoritecentral" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Date: Tuesday, January 5, 2010, 12:10 PM
>>
>> Good Call.? Why waste your time on something that is
>> not a sure thing.
>>
>> Gary
>>
>> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hole in Red Rock Lounge
>> Roof Still a Mystery?????
>> > To: garychase at live.com;
>> meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com;
>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> > From: mail at mhmeteorites.com
>> > Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 16:52:14 +0000
>> >
>> > Didn't seem worth is to me.
>> > ----------------------
>> > Matt Morgan
>> > Mile High Meteorites
>> > http://www.mhmeteorites.com
>> > P.O. Box 151293
>> > Lakewood, CO 80215 USA
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Gary Chase <garychase at live.com>
>> > Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 08:23:13
>> > To: meteoritecentral<meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hole in Red Rock Lounge
>> Roof Still a Mystery
>> > ?????
>> >
>> >
>> > "Robert Ward drove through the night from Arizona to
>> investigate"?
>> >
>> > I don't understand. Aren't there meteorite dealers and
>> collectors closer to the sight to check it out? Anne? Matt?
>> >
>> >
>> > Gary
>> >
>> >
>> >> From: bcmeteorites at gmail.com
>> >> To: mpg4444 at gmail.com;
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2010 06:39:00 -0700
>> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Hole in Red Rock
>> Lounge Roof Still a Mystery
>> >>
>> >> This link is for the article on the front page of
>> the local Colorado Springs
>> >> paper "The Gazette" this morning with picture of
>> Robert Ward holding the ceiling tile with the
>> >> "mystery" hole in it.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.gazette.com/articles/guy-91739-bar-heard.html
>> >>
>> >> Bob Falls
>> >> colorado Springs, CO
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com]On
>> Behalf Of Michael
>> >> Groetz
>> >> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 5:46 AM
>> >> To: Meteorite List
>> >> Subject: [meteorite-list] Hole in Red Rock Lounge
>> Roof Still a Mystery
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> http://www.krdo.com/Global/story.asp?S=11755241
>> >>
>> >> Hole in Red Rock Lounge Roof Still a Mystery
>> >>
>> >> By: Stacey Kaiser
>> >> s.kaiser at krdotv.com
>> >> Follow me on Twitter at
>> www.twitter.com/staceykaiser
>> >>
>> >> COLORADO SPRINGS - Was it lightning, some sort of
>> space rock, or ice
>> >> from a plane? Fire investigators cannot rule
>> anything out as the
>> >> cause of a hole in the roof of Red Rock Lounge at
>> 31st and Colorado
>> >> Avenue in Colorado Springs.
>> >>
>> >> "I saw some insulation sitting on the table and I
>> looked up and
>> >> there's a hole in my ceiling," said Red Rock
>> Lounge owner Karol
>> >> Sandvig. Sandvig noticed the hole when she first
>> walked into her bar,
>> >> then she saw a note from her bartender. "Karol, I
>> had to call the
>> >> cops because something came through the roof and
>> there was a loud
>> >> boom," said a note from Bartender Tammy Newland.
>> >>
>> >> Firefighters got the call at 11:30pm Wednesday.
>> They told Newland the
>> >> boom was heard from their station a few streets
>> away. "It scared
>> >> everybody. Everybody was off their seats pretty
>> quick. I don't think
>> >> I've seen some of the people in here move that
>> quick," said Newland.
>> >>
>> >> But the big question is, what caused this massive
>> boom and 3-inch hole
>> >> in the ceiling? "We tried to rule out things such
>> as lightning,
>> >> something falling from the sky like a piece of
>> space rock like a small
>> >> meteorite and we weren't able to rule out
>> anything," said Colorado
>> >> Springs Fire Department Battalion Chief Steven
>> Dubay.
>> >>
>> >> STORMTRACKER 13 Chief Meteorologist Matt Meister
>> says he was at the
>> >> station until about 1:00AM and did not see any
>> lightning. It could be
>> >> a space rock, but investigators have seen no sign
>> of a rock. And the
>> >> hole is too big to be from a bullet.
>> >>
>> >> Sandvig says the hole in her ceiling will not ruin
>> their New Year's
>> >> Eve celebration. The landlord said he will be out
>> to fix the hole.
>> >> ______________________________________________
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Received on Wed 06 Jan 2010 01:02:32 PM PST