[meteorite-list] Wisconsin Prices

From: Martin Altmann <altmann_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 1 May 2010 03:15:35 +0200
Message-ID: <002b01cae8cb$d0c49630$07b22959_at_name86d88d87e2>

Hi there, I can write even longer mails...

Well, I'm no native speaker, but in reading Jason's posting, I had the same
sensation like Darryl, that it was meant somewhat condescending...
...or better to say, that it was the good ol' comfort but nevertheless
outdated dealers-bashing.


------
"I'm legitimately worried by this change that's taking place. People seem
genuinely more interested in the money of meteorites than what got me
interested in them all those years ago."

" I wouldn't expect anything less from a dealer, with few exceptions."

" Yes, you might get a few dollars less per gram."

"If not...cutting up stones for money"

"In most cases,
dealers give the same small samples to science because they want to
sell as much as they can."

"- hell, he'd probably get more out
of it per gram if he did, selling it in mg-sized samples."

"I understand that you're thinking differently than at least some dealers
now"

"chasing down falls for the money of it has been such a common theme
recently that I felt"

"It just seems as though very few people are doing it for the love of it
anymore."


"The story reminds me of quite a few, to be honest: dealer chases down new
fall/find, finds it, cuts it up, sells it."

"I'll take it quietly while a dealer dices with no pretext [to make money],"

"Is it really the dream of most people out there to simply find a new fall
for the cash in it?"

-----

Fie! Jason.


You know what? All these hunters and dealers, most time of the year not at
home, going around twice, three times around the globe per year, for the
tiny chance to find a stone or two. All those people walking every free
minute, under the sun, eating dust, hundreds and thousands miles, all these
people doing the fieldwork, trying to narrow down a fireball, all this
people gambling with their own hard-earned money (and often enough with
their health too), often enough returning with empty hands..
...do you really think they could do that, if they wouldn't LOVE meteorites?

Where are you taking the pretension from, that they should pursue their
profession pro bono or for the good of their health?
You might be not used to that, cause you will work later in a tax-funded
environment, but there is no difference to a carpenter, to run a shop or an
enterprise (else than meteorite hunting/dealing is more difficult as we
talking about the rarest matter on the planet).
Each hunter or dealer has to pay his bills, his taxes, his expenses, his
costs and he has additionally to make a living from his work.
Won't repeat myself, once I wrote a lengthy email to this list, what all for
expenses a person selling meteorites has to bear, to give an idea. Was
highly appreciated by a veteran dealer, hence unsuspicious to be a greedy
barbarian, right Al?
They have their needs to be able to work in that weird field, the field of
their dreams and their enthusiasm.
That's btw the reason for quite all meteorites found by privateers being so
much cheaper than any found by an university expedition, cause the hunters
and dealers have to calculate.

And to destroy your romanticism: when I was a boy, these few selected
dealers you might have meant, a Haag, a Zeitschel, a New, a Carion.. - they
were always selling slices and cuts, also small ones.

And a Krantz, a Ward, a Foote, a Haag, as well as the first pioneers in the
deserts and many more, who filled the institutional collections,
they were two-fisted dealers, full stop.

Difference to today is that meteorites are bringing not the money anymore,
they were paid with in past...
...btw. I noted that it becomes more and more fashionable to have a nice
"meteorite men"-bashing too. Gosh they are selling their Brenhams cheaper
than a Nininger ever did. Why? Cause they found so much. Why did they found
so many? Cause they worked hard. Good work.

And the second difference is, that the museums, yes also in USA, don't spend
the millions anymore for meteorites, like they did in past.
Then it was of course easier to sell entire pieces and finds.

And such a lock, stock and barrel!

Of course the hunters, dealers and collectors are keeping their nicest
recoveries. But not all are maybe in your comfort financial situation to do
it always. Costs are running, or if a spare-time hunter sells to finance his
passion, what's wrong with that?

I don't know Joe.
If he sells, for paying a part of the education of his sons or if he needs a
new car or a vacation, whatever, who would dare to remonstrate with him on
selling the stone? I fully believe, that it wasn't such an easy decision for
Joe to give the stone away.
You know what the difference between you and Joe is?
Joe dropped everything immediately and went on the hunt!
And he was lucky.
You could have found that very stone, but you didn't, you even didn't try.
So I don't understand why you made a comment about Joe at all.

And this stone-old cutting debate, which we had a dozen times on the list.
For me it's always remarkable, that those, wagging the moralistic finger
most disgustedly are so often exactly these, who, if asked then, why they
hadn't bought the entire stone, were telling highly astonished: Me? Why me?
Good heavens!

So why didn't you buy Joe's stone? Or why haven't you suggested to your
university to buy the stone, if it was so beautiful, that it was worth so
many lines, you wrote?
I'm sure Joe wouldn't have any problem to give the stone to you,
(probably he would have been very happy, if the stone could have remained
intact)
as no offerer has any problem to sell his stones complete likewise and to
save all that work and time of cutting, polishing, marketing, completions of
sales and the cut loss and and and...

Btw.
Where was your outcry about Kosice?!

Seen the finds per man-hour it must have been a shower richer than
Wisconsin!
Can't remember any fall in whole Europe in my 30 years of collecting, which
produced so many individuals.
I heard the official team ended the search, cause they think they have found
enough or because it's too laborious or whatever.
By law it is strictly forbidden to FIND more stones, it is even forbidden to
look for them, I was told.
Well and therefore sooo many stones and maybe also the main mass is
sentenced to rot and to decay in the soil.
Btw nice area, you saw Marcin's photos? I think the farmers, the guesthouses
and inns, the shops could have need such a fine extra income like Livingston
had, the local schools some expert lessons, the local museums some donated
stones, the families a heirloom handed over from generation to generation
with the story...and the tourist managers tear their hair, because such an
worldwide attention they could have had and which they will get once in a
thousand years, such a campaign is really priceless!
So not only the scientific, but also the economic damage for the region is
very high.

That is a ways more hefty destruction to worry about than to cut any stone.
Therefore we should be glad and happy, that such people like Joe are hunting
and finding the living stones of Livingston.


Thou shall NOT take this all as personal affront, Jason!

I felt only obligated to write something - and that's why I also came with
Kosice - because:

It is exactly that grotesque caricature of collectors, dealers, hunters as
greedy and unscrupulous people running around with $$-signs as pupils,
willing to sell even their grandmothers in case,
- combined with the ignorance of the requirements needed at all for
meteorites being found,
which causes these for all parties disastrous laws.

Best!
Martin



 
Received on Fri 30 Apr 2010 09:15:35 PM PDT