[meteorite-list] Secret Find/Fall Coordinates andLegitimacy-Someone help me understand this.

From: Erik Fisler <erikfwebb_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 23:27:19 -0700
Message-ID: <COL119-W30F624BC37C8024CDD577DA4B80_at_phx.gbl>

 <ED375177F17D4D16B2F4CBD70B5CF82C at bellatrix>
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Chris is right guys!=A0 We should only care about what effects us personall=
y inside our little bubble.=A0 I should use that reasoning in my life!=A0 W=
hen I find a new meteorite I won't bother to get it classified because I wi=
ll have my "sample" to show my friends. Tough love for those guys who would=
 love to see the new classification or find some themselves.=A0 I don't get=
 to hide behind "It's for the good of science!" like Farmer and used on new=
 AZ fall or Chris has with "coords shouldn't prevent classifications."=20

It's extremely nice to get my "fix" by finding meteorites in existing field=
s between hunting for cold finds.
Also=2C=A0 if it wasn't for the coordinates of the Franconia and Gold Basin=
 strewn fields here in Arizona then they wouldn't have been hit so hard wit=
h metal detectors. If they hadn't been hit so hard with detectors=2C many s=
eparate falls would not have been discovered.=A0 For example: King Tut=2C P=
alo Verde Mine=2C Buck Mountain 001 through 003=2C Sacramento Wash 001 thro=
ugh 005.=A0 Sacramento Wash=2C being chondritic iron=2C would never have be=
en pushed to classification and you wouldn't have your "sample" to work on.=
=A0 I do not even want to get started on pairing pieces to falls....

'Comrades!' he cried. 'You do not imagine=2C I hope=2C that we pigs are
doing this in a spirit of selfishness and privilege? Many of us
actually dislike milk and apples. I dislike them myself. Our sole object in=
 taking these things is to preserve our health. Milk and apples (this has =
been proved by Science=2C comrades) contain substances absolutely necessary=
 to the well-being of a pig. We pigs are brainworkers. The whole manageme=
nt and organisation of this farm depend on us. Day and night we are watchi=
ng over your welfare. It is for your sake that we drink the milk and eat t=
hose apples.
Do you know what would happen if we pigs failed in our duty? Jones
would come back! Yes=2C Jones would come back! Surely=2C comrades=2C' cried
Squealer almost pleadingly=2C skipping from side to side and whisking his
tail=2C 'surely there is no one among you who wants to see Jones come
back?'

Who among you wants to see the media circus come back?!!
[Erik]

> From: clp at alumni.caltech.edu
> To: Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tue=2C 27 Oct 2009 20:28:03 -0600
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Secret Find/Fall Coordinates andLegitimacy-=
Someone help me understand this.
>=20
>>If one doesn't have the coordinates of one or more
>>stones of an interesting or important stone=2C
>>one doesn't know=2C where to look for more.
>=20
> Of course. And I recognize the importance of that to meteorite collectors=
=2C=20
> hunters=2C and dealers. But as a scientist=2C I mainly want a few grams=20
> accessible for analysis. The rest simply doesn't matter- scientifically.
>=20
>>And with the coordinates of the fragments=2C you can
>>map the strewnfield=2C determine the strewn-ellipse
>>and from there you can deduct the trajectory of
>>the meteorid and fragmentation events.
>=20
> I have serious doubts that this is practical. The paper is interesting=2C=
 but=20
> I question its conclusions. A strewn field is not very closely related to=
 a=20
> meteor trajectory in most cases. This paper presents a model with no=20
> observational confirmation. And it utilizes a strewn field that stretches=
=20
> over kilometers. It is rare enough for coordinates to be withheld=2C and =
even=20
> rarer=2C I expect=2C when dozens of meteorites are recovered over large f=
ields.
>=20
> To put it more empirically=2C I have been reading MAPS and other journals=
 with=20
> meteoritical papers for years. I've seen hundreds or thousands of article=
s=20
> comparing meteorite mineralogy=2C formation theory=2C asteroid associatio=
n=2C etc=2C=20
> but not more than a dozen or so papers detailing the orbit=2C flight=20
> characteristics=2C and strewn field of meteorites- despite the fact that =
most=20
> meteorites have well described coordinates and many have well mapped stre=
wn=20
> fields. I honestly don't see the very small number of undisclosed locatio=
ns=20
> having any significant impact on the science of meteoritics at all.
>=20
> Of course=2C I'm not arguing against disclosing locations=2C only that fa=
iling=20
> to disclose the location should not prevent a meteorite from being named =
and=20
> classified. That would be far more damaging to science.
>=20
> Chris
>=20
> *****************************************
> Chris L Peterson
> Cloudbait Observatory
> http://www.cloudbait.com
>=20
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----=20
> From: "Martin Altmann" <altmann at meteorite-martin.de>
> To: <Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday=2C October 27=2C 2009 6:45 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Secret Find/Fall Coordinates=20
> andLegitimacy-Someone help me understand this.
>=20
>=20
>>I recognize that there are rare cases where knowing the exact coordinates
>>of a meteorite are essential
>=20
> I would say rather the opposite - as we all know=2C many if not most
> meteorites break up before they hit the ground.
>=20
> If one doesn't have the coordinates of one or more stones of an interesti=
ng
> or important stone=2C one doesn't know=2C where to look for more.
> If you look e.g. into the pairing groups of the lunar and Martian meteori=
tes
> with known coordinates=2C like e.g. those from Libya or Oman=2C you'll se=
e that
> there are often several years=2C where additional pieces were found (also=
 from
> different people).
>=20
> And with the coordinates of the fragments=2C you can map the strewnfield=
=2C
> determine the strewn-ellipse and from there you can deduct the trajectory=
 of
> the meteorid and fragmentation events. (but not with meteortites found o=
n
> the icefields=2C cause they were transported).
>=20
> Like e.g. the Verdandsky did with SaU 001
> http://www.meteorites.ru/menu/publication-e/omandojd-e.pdf
> or the Oman-Suisse-team is doing with other finds in Oman.
>=20
> And for those researchers interested in weathering processes of meteorite=
s=2C
> it is important to know the geological formation=2C the soil ect. of the =
find
> site.
>=20
> Best!
> Martin
>=20
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Received on Wed 28 Oct 2009 02:27:19 AM PDT