[meteorite-list] Secret Find/Fall Coordinates and Legitimacy-Someone help me understand this.

From: Martin Altmann <altmann_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 01:45:46 +0100
Message-ID: <005b01ca5768$01c08550$07b22959_at_name86d88d87e2>

>I recognize that there are rare cases where knowing the exact coordinates
>of a meteorite are essential

I would say rather the opposite - as we all know, many if not most
meteorites break up before they hit the ground.

If one doesn't have the coordinates of one or more stones of an interesting
or important stone, one doesn't know, where to look for more.
If you look e.g. into the pairing groups of the lunar and Martian meteorites
with known coordinates, like e.g. those from Libya or Oman, you'll see that
there are often several years, where additional pieces were found (also from
different people).

And with the coordinates of the fragments, you can map the strewnfield,
determine the strewn-ellipse and from there you can deduct the trajectory of
the meteorid and fragmentation events. (but not with meteortites found on
the icefields, cause they were transported).

Like e.g. the Verdandsky did with SaU 001
http://www.meteorites.ru/menu/publication-e/omandojd-e.pdf
or the Oman-Suisse-team is doing with other finds in Oman.

And for those researchers interested in weathering processes of meteorites,
it is important to know the geological formation, the soil ect. of the find
site.

Best!
Martin

-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Chris
Peterson
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 28. Oktober 2009 01:04
An: Meteorite List
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Secret Find/Fall Coordinates and
Legitimacy-Someone help me understand this.

My perspective, as someone who neither collects nor hunts meteorites, is
that it doesn't much matter. All meteorites come from the same place: space.

And where they actually land rarely matters from a scientific standpoint,
beyond perhaps the general region (which seems always present in the
database). If the nomenclature committee were to have a policy of not
accepting meteorites with deliberately undisclosed locations, should they
also refuse to accept specimens with unknown locations? Scientifically,
there is no difference.

I'm all for maximizing the information available, but I wouldn't refuse to
make "official" specimens that are missing information, whether deliberately

withheld or not. That would be scientifically counterproductive. (I
certainly understand why someone owning property where a meteorite is found
would wish to keep the location vague- either a region or lat/long to a
degree or so of precision.)

Of course, I recognize that there are rare cases where knowing the exact
coordinates of a meteorite are essential- for instance, in the kind of work
I do, modeling falls from orbit to fireball to the ground. But such research

represents only a tiny fraction of the science devoted to meteorites.

Chris

*****************************************
Chris L Peterson
Cloudbait Observatory
http://www.cloudbait.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
To: "Meteorite List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 5:32 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Secret Find/Fall Coordinates and
Legitimacy -Someone help me understand this.


> Hi List,
>
> Recently I was doing some research on various meteorites for an
> article I am writing, and I noticed a few entries in the Met Bulletin
> database that give all of the details about a meteorite, but then says
> that the actual find coordinates are secret or being withheld.
>
> Ok, I understand the motivations behind keeping a location secret.
> These motives have been discussed on the List previously, as recently
> as the new fall in Arizona that Dr. Schrader found - which
> subsequently set off a flurry of espionage and intrigues to find the
> fall which Dr. Jack was keeping secret. Granted. I can understand
> the value of not having 200 amateurs running rough-shod over a new
> strewnfield before it is properly documented. But, once the
> strewnfield is mapped, and the team(s) working the field have packed
> up and left with their specimens, what is the motivation for keeping
> the exact location a secret? If the fall is known to science and
> available to science (meaning, it has been classified and samples are
> available for study), then why should the location be kept secret? Is
> it financial reasons, so the original finders can come back on
> subsequents trips and deplete the strewnfield for their own
> inventories? Or, is it because the location is on someone's private
> property and the owner has requested that the exact location be kept
> secret to prevent a flood of trespassers? If the latter, then how
> does this explain the secret coordinates of the NWA desert finds -
> some of which are ordinary chondrites out in the open desert that were
> catalogued over 10 years ago. Why are these still being withheld?
>
> It seems to me, that science (and institutions) should not recognize
> meteorites whose find/fall locations are being kept secret
> intentionally without good explanation - doing so would encourage
> profiteering and damage the availability of specimens for scientific
> study and private collectors. If finders wanted to have their falls
> officially classified (and reap the benefits of legitimacy that comes
> from recognition and inclusion in meteorite catalogues), then they
> should have to divulge the coordinates of their finds. Wouldn't that
> take away some of the incentive to keep these locations secret where
> the only motivation to do so is personal profit?
>
> I don't want to strike a nerve here or touch off a big debate, I just
> want someone to explain to me the reasoning behind anonymous find
> locations (not because the location is unknown, but because it is
> being withheld) being accepted into the Meteoritical Society database?
>
> Best regards,
>
> MikeG

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Received on Tue 27 Oct 2009 08:45:46 PM PDT