[meteorite-list] Meteorites & Competition

From: Meteorites USA <eric_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 12:44:21 -0800
Message-ID: <4B006825.6000300_at_meteoritesusa.com>

Hi Dave, List, Adam and all who care,

Let me be absolutely clear in my statement and meaning so as no to
confuse anyone about my beliefs and views on the IMCA, corporations,
profit, and the influence that such entities have on the meteorite world
and access to the knowledge it provides people about our universe.

Profit is not always monetary. In fact profit can be and is power and
influence based on what the intrinsic cost of input versus what's
returned, whether that be a trade in time investment, or a tangible
product. Everything has value, and more importantly that perceived value
is what makes the world go round.

I support the IMCA and what they stand for and have respect and
admiration for the people who created it and work hard to build it
everyday. I have many friends and business colleagues who are members of
the IMCA and members of the board. I have been invited many times to
become a member and have politely and respectfully declined to join at
this time. This is not to say that I will not ever become a member, nor
does it say that I dislike the IMCA at all or even worse, view them in a
negative light, which I do not. I am NOT an arbiter for corporate
sponsorship, or the IMCA, nor do I subscribe to the view that anyone
should be. The integrity of the meteorite world is based upon the
integrity of individuals within this community, and NOT any one group.

Your statement Dave:

"...'The word "corporate" to me means restrictive for profit...'..."
Wikipedia? Oh, goodness..."

No, that's not Wikipedia at all, that's my view, and just what I said it
was. ;)

There is nothing horrifying about profit, and if I understand your post
correctly and if you were simply being facetious, I would agree. The
issue is not profit, the issue is about at the very least the temptation
of influencing restrictive rules or guidelines that limits public access
to knowledge and physical display of specimens.

"...Then you wrote: "My personal beliefs are that people should have
free access to the knowledge and information that meteorites and
astronomy provides."

And...? ..."

To answer your simple question, I will give a simple answer. I've
already said it.

Don't limit or restrict access or use the power and influence of a group
to control something which should be freely available knowledge.

Let other enjoy the meteorites too... Share.

This has all been hashed out in the past, and I'm not trying to bring
something up that's already been discussed at length, I'm not attacking
anyone or any group, I'm simply saying I don't like group power because
they tend to forget about the little guy, whether it be purposefully or
by unintentional means.

Respectfully of course...

Regards,
Eric Wichman
Meteorites USA






Dave Gheesling wrote:
> For whatever its worth, I've disagreed with both Adam and Eric on many
> occasions, and I'm quite certain both have disagreed with me before as well.
> That said, I thought Adam's post was superb, though the semantics
> ("corporate involvement," to reference just one point) may have been
> confusing.
>
> Eric, you wrote: "if corporate involvement means losing the personality and
> integrity of the meteorite world through increased tampering by larger
> groups and politically or profit motivated companies who might in future
> times limit the publics access to meteorites then I'm not for that at all".
>
> Not sure who the arbiter is for such matters, but let's assume it's you.
> The IMCA would not exist if the integrity of the meteorite world were so
> pristine, and there's no use jamming up bandwidth with examples. And to
> think that this arena understands marketing and packaging of these rarest of
> rocks on Earth is, well, profoundly off base.
>
> The we have the horrifying notion of profit. Profits are derived from
> offering products that prospective customers need or want at a price (that
> exceeds the costs of providing the product) deemed a value by said
> prospective customers. In other words, they will, on their own volition,
> pay the individual or entity for the act of procuring or developing then
> providing said product. Of course there is corporate corruption; yet there
> is corruption everywhere...even in the world of meteorites (thank you IMCA
> for addressing that). Anyway, would such undoubtedly evil, profit-motivated
> entities not prefer that public (read: customers) access to meteorites, if
> anything, be expanded?
>
> Then you wrote: "My personal beliefs are that people should have free access
> to the knowledge and information that meteorites and astronomy provides."
>
> And...?
>
> Then lastly: "The word "corporate" to me means restrictive for profit..."
>
> Wikipedia?
>
> Oh, goodness...
>
> Dave
> www.fallingrocks.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
> [mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Meteorites
> USA
> Sent: Sunday, November 15, 2009 1:41 PM
> To: Adam Hupe
> Cc: Adam
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites & Competition
>
> Hi Adam,
>
> I'm curios what you mean by "corporate involvement" when it concerns
> meteorites? With regards to the IMCA I am in partial agreement, and believe
> they are a good organization, and needed in this industry. But some
> restraint needs to be had with regard to the influence that these types of
> groups have. Historically speaking such groups tend to lean toward their own
> motives over time. There has been no organization in the history of man that
> has not given in, at least partially, to the temptation such influence.
>
> If you mean some sort of sponsorship of certain outreach and educational
> programs geared toward teaching children and young adults about astronomy
> and meteorites then I'm game. But if corporate involvement means losing the
> personality and integrity of the meteorite world through increased tampering
> by larger groups and politically or profit motivated companies who might in
> future times limit the publics access to meteorites then I'm not for that at
> all. This is a slippery slope...
>
> My personal beliefs are that people should have free access to the knowledge
> and information that meteorites and astronomy provides. The word "corporate"
> to me means restrictive for profit, and an example would be the corporate
> mentality of profit before people. I'm not necessarily referring to monetary
> profit, but rather to the increased influence particular groups may have
> over access to knowledge and information through the study of meteorites by
> individuals and the limited access that some scientific institutions have
> applied to certain collections. Collections that in my opinion every human
> being on the planet should have access to. Not to fondle and ogle the
> collection, but to view, study and learn.
>
> I'm not attacking here, I'm simply voicing a concern and my belief in the
> free access to knowledge that needs to be preserved.
>
> Thanks for listening...
>
> Regards,
> Eric Wichman
> Meteorites USA
>
>
> Adam Hupe wrote:
>
>> Dear List,
>>
>>
>> I think it is crazy to talk about corporate greed and meteorites at the
>>
> same time. There are much simpler ways of earning money than chasing and
> selling meteorites. You have to have a love for these rocks to engage at
> this level. The overhead is astonishing while the returns are unpredictable
> in an incredibly thin market. Risk management doesn't exist.
>
>> I believe more corporate involvement is needed to push this avocation to
>>
> the next level. The IMCA is a perfect example of a positive corporate
> influence on a mostly misunderstood hobby. What lacks the most right now is
> customer service and value added reselling. Most new dealers do not even
> polish out the saw marks on slices, let alone polish both sides. Collectors
> pay for both sides of a complete slice, not just one. It is disrespectful to
> cut a meteorite and then not complete the job. A good polish is more
> important for reasons beyond aesthetics. Certification is the most important
> aspect of collecting and is consistently lacking when dealing with
> meteorites. One just needs to look at coins, baseball cards and most other
> collectibles to see they are nearly worthless without it.
>
>> In virtually ever other collectibles market, there are standards in place
>>
> thanks to corporate interest. These days, some uninformed elements treat
> meteorites like commodities that are renewable. Nothing could be further
> from the truth. The lack of appreciation for these rarities is really on
> full display during these hard times. People forget that meteorites are
> millions of time rarer than gold that currently maintains a price of around
> $35.00/gram. May I remind you that now only about 1/20th the amount of
> meteorites by weight is all that is coming out of Moroccan compared to just
> five years ago according to my calculations. It will not be long before the
> non-available Antarctic meteorites regain the volume title once again.
>
>> I do appreciate the real nomadic meteorite hunters from Morocco and
>>
> surrounding countries. In my opinion, they are the best in world. It is
> what happens to meteorites after they leave the finders hands that concerns
> me.
>
>> Standards, proper appreciation and corporate involvement are key to the
>>
> long-term future. I see a business-like environment helping in all of these
> regards. Collectors deserve to have their investments protected.
>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Adam
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>
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Received on Sun 15 Nov 2009 03:44:21 PM PST