[meteorite-list] Meteorites & Competition

From: mafer at imagineopals.com <mafer_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 20:38:41 +0000
Message-ID: <b162d7d1c05ec65eb3b2abe28cce14e4_at_>

I liked the comment about suits siting around a board table like is done
with oil and gold. That is such an one sided way of doing commerce (some
old fuddy siting at a table with his country's flag in his hand agreeing to
pay x dollars for a commodity that he makes so much anyway, he could care
less how it affects those at the bottom of the wage scales, where is the
free enterprise, yet men just like this run our lives. Keeping that
mentality out of meteorites goes a long long way, and dealing with the
principles (those who actually find the meteorites) will do more for
keeping the science and hobby alive than most could see. I find it harsh
and wrong to pay a middleman a high price when he has undercut or misled
the finder. By the same token, without some middlemen, we wouldn't have
many finds and they would have been dumped on the ground as a waste of time
and the strewn field forgotten about.

Keeping things real and in perspective are important.

Mark Ferguson



On November 15, 7:03 pm "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" <meteoritemike at gmail.com> wrote:

> Well said Eric. I agree 110%.
>
> You said it much better than I did in my reply.
>
> There are two sides to everything, especially in the realm of
> business. And that is a core issue here - we are not just dealing
> with collecting, science, or trading. There is a marriage of
> personal collecting, science, and business for profit at work in the
> meteorite world. Different people are drawn to meteorites for a wide
> variety of reasons. No single group can represent all of those
> interests. Speaking just for myself, the IMCA does not represent me,
> but I do appreciate the good work they do to maintain the integrity of
> the market.
>
> I don't like the idea of a bunch of suits sitting around a table and
> contriving reasons to expand their influence. Whenever that happens,
> the average person is one who ends up losing out. IMO, the meteorite
> market polices itself very well. This List is a good example of that
> fact - despite some of the complaints about some of the personalities
> involved. If a meteorite is stolen, it is announced quickly on this
> List. If a trader misrepresents a specimen or pulls a scam, this List
> will hear about it. If the scammer is an IMCA member, then there is
> recourse. If the scammer uses PayPal, then there is recourse. If the
> scammer uses eBay, then there is recourse as well. People who are
> dishonest in their practices are quickly labelled as such and their
> reputations are ruined in this small world of meteorites. I can
> think of at least 2 major meteorite players who have become "persona
> non grata" during my short time of about 2 years on this List. In
> addition to this List, we have at least 2 other meteorite discussion
> forums that are active with high traffic - and all of them are
> populated by IMCA and MS members (and a bunch of good folks who aren't
> members of either group). The same people who are not welcome on this
> List would find themselves unwelcome in those places as well.
>
> I do think the meteorite market needs more consistency and structure,
> but we don't need an invitation-only club to make the decisions.
>
> Best regards and clear skies,
>
> MikeG
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 11/15/09, Meteorites USA <eric at meteoritesusa.com> wrote:
> > Hi Adam,
> >
> > I'm curios what you mean by "corporate involvement" when it
> > concerns meteorites? With regards to the IMCA I am in partial
> > agreement, and believe they are a good organization, and needed in
> > this industry. But some restraint needs to be had with regard to
> > the influence that these types of groups have. Historically
> > speaking such groups tend to lean toward their own motives over
> > time. There has been no organization in the history of man that
> > has not given in, at least partially, to the temptation such
> > influence.
> > If you mean some sort of sponsorship of certain outreach and
> > educational programs geared toward teaching children and young
> > adults about astronomy and meteorites then I'm game. But if
> > corporate involvement means losing the personality and integrity
> > of the meteorite world through increased tampering by larger
> > groups and politically or profit motivated companies who might in
> > future times limit the publics access to meteorites then I'm not
> > for that at all. This is a slippery slope...
> > My personal beliefs are that people should have free access to the
> > knowledge and information that meteorites and astronomy provides.
> > The word "corporate" to me means restrictive for profit, and an
> > example would be the corporate mentality of profit before people.
> > I'm not necessarily referring to monetary profit, but rather to
> > the increased influence particular groups may have over access to
> > knowledge and information through the study of meteorites by
> > individuals and the limited access that some scientific
> > institutions have applied to certain collections. Collections that
> > in my opinion every human being on the planet should have access
> > to. Not to fondle and ogle the collection, but to view, study and
> > learn.
> > I'm not attacking here, I'm simply voicing a concern and my belief
> > in the free access to knowledge that needs to be preserved.
> >
> > Thanks for listening...
> >
> > Regards,
> > Eric Wichman
> > Meteorites USA
> >
> >
> > Adam Hupe wrote:
> >> Dear List,
> >>
> >>
> >> I think it is crazy to talk about corporate greed and meteorites
> >> at the same time. There are much simpler ways of earning money
> >> than chasing and selling meteorites. You have to have a love for
> >> these rocks to engage at this level. The overhead is astonishing
> >> while the returns are unpredictable in an incredibly thin market.
> >> Risk management doesn't exist.
> >>
> >> I believe more corporate involvement is needed to push this
> >> avocation to the next level. The IMCA is a perfect example of a
> >> positive corporate influence on a mostly misunderstood hobby.
> >> What lacks the most right now is customer service and value added
> >> reselling. Most new dealers do not even polish out the saw marks
> >> on slices, let alone polish both sides. Collectors pay for both
> >> sides of a complete slice, not just one. It is disrespectful to
> >> cut a meteorite and then not complete the job. A good polish is
> >> more important for reasons beyond aesthetics. Certification is
> >> the most important aspect of collecting and is consistently
> >> lacking when dealing with meteorites. One just needs to look at coins,
> >> baseball cards and most other collectibles to see they are nearly
> >> worthless without it.
> >> In virtually ever other collectibles market, there are standards
> >> in place thanks to corporate interest. These days, some
> >> uninformed elements treat meteorites like commodities that are
> >> renewable. Nothing could be further from the truth. The lack of
> >> appreciation for these rarities is really on full display during
> >> these hard times. People forget that meteorites are millions of
> >> time rarer than gold that currently maintains a price of around
> >> $35.00/gram. May I remind you that now only about 1/20th the
> >> amount of meteorites by weight is all that is coming out of
> >> Moroccan compared to just five years ago according to my calculations.
> >> It will not be long before the non-available Antarctic meteorites
> >> regain the volume title once again.
> >>
> >> I do appreciate the real nomadic meteorite hunters from Morocco
> >> and surrounding countries. In my opinion, they are the best in
> >> world. It is what happens to meteorites after they leave the
> >> finders hands that concerns me.
> >>
> >> Standards, proper appreciation and corporate involvement are key
> >> to the long-term future. I see a business-like environment
> >> helping in all of these regards. Collectors deserve to have
> >> their investments protected.
> >> All the best,
> >>
> >> Adam
> >> ______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >
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>
>
> --
> .........................................................
> Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
> Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
> FaceBook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone
> MySpace - http://www.myspace.com/fine_meteorites_4_sale
> Twitter - Twitter - http://twitter.com/GalacticStone
> eBay - http://shop.ebay.com/merchant/maypickle
> ..........................................................
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Received on Sun 15 Nov 2009 03:38:41 PM PST