[meteorite-list] BEATING A DEAD HORSE - The future and beyond

From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 13:54:27 -0500
Message-ID: <e51421550911141054g5b5b697bv94d5f5f3bb7402bd_at_mail.gmail.com>

Howard said -

"My point is, and perhaps you can explain why......... Any meteorite
dealer or professional hunter should teach anybody how be a
competitor?

Do you think McDonalds would teach you how to run a restaurant?"

My condolences to any dealer of meteorites who wants to emulate the US
corporate model - the same model that has destroyed several key
sectors of our economy. Any dealer who wants to follow the
blindly-capitalist, profit-first mindset of corporate America is going
to be left in the dust by the rest of the dealers who give a crap
about what they are doing and actually show appreciation to their
customers. The days of the cold, stand-offish, "take it or leave it"
type of dealer are coming to an end. You can already see them
receding into obscurity - the market is changing. Change with it or
be left behind.

That's my 2 cents. Actual mileage may vary, but my mileage is great. ;)


On 11/14/09, Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I would have to agree with you Dave.
>
> I also think that it shows a good deal about someone who is willing to help
> others, just as it shows a good deal about those that are not willing.
>
> Howards comments reflect a perfect example of why I have grown to have the
> impression that meteorites are dog eat dog and question motives and reasons
> for certain things.
>
> Should we really look at educating and helping newer collectors and
> tomorrows hunters/dealers as "bad" and "training the competition" or should
> we look at it as making sure those that will take the reigns of this great
> hobby have learned from those that know how to do it right?
>
> Sure to some, meteorites are simply that "gold mine" or "money falling from
> the sky" while to others, meteorites offer a chance to take part in
> something, to learn about and take part in the study of space and history.
>
> I guess it all comes down to why people are into meteorites... For money, or
> for the science of meteoritics. sure the money is good, I wont deny that,
> but is that all its really about? No.
>
> We are gifted with some wonderful things from outside this planet that we
> would never be able to touch, test, learn from or anything else many claim
> to value and want to preserve. With that in mind, should it not be in all of
> our best interests to make sure that the future generation has learned from
> those that know how to properly document, record, preserve and care for the
> collections we value so much today?
>
> Sure, some may look at it as training competition, but perhaps they should
> really look at it as passing on a gift of knowledge to those that will
> follow in the footsteps of the path they have already traveled...
>
> just my 2 pennies, hope everyone is having a good day!
>
>
> Greg C.
> www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com
> IMCA 4682
>
>
> --- On Sat, 11/14/09, dave carothers <carothersdl at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: dave carothers <carothersdl at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best ways to send payments - BEATING A DEAD
>> HORSEIs toMorocco
>> To: "Howard Steffic" <bencubbin at hotmail.com>,
>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Saturday, November 14, 2009, 1:20 PM
>> Howard,
>>
>> Respectfully...
>>
>> Reference your comment "I laugh at how the "newbies" expect
>> the veterans
>> with the battle scars to tell them exacty how to .... Hunt
>> Meteorites or
>> Sell on Ebay or send money overseas. Get off the couch and
>> do your own
>> legwork."
>>
>> Why should it bother YOU that someone should ask for for
>> advice or
>> assistance? Go back through the history of this list
>> and you will see
>> literally thousands of instances where dealers and
>> professional hunters have
>> freely offered advice and assistance to
>> "newbies". You don't think people
>> stay on this list for the ads, do you? You don't
>> think people stay on this
>> list for the disputes, cyber fist fights, etc, do
>> you? I personally stay on
>> this list (and I'm sure other do to) so we CAN ask for
>> advice and assistance
>> from the pros.
>>
>> I won't answer as to the motives or rationale of why
>> dealers and
>> professional hunters freely offer advice and assistance to
>> "newbies", but
>> suffice to say that I (and I know hundreds, maybe thousands
>> of others over
>> the history of this list) appreciate ALL the assistance
>> offered by ANYONE on
>> this list.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Howard Steffic" <bencubbin at hotmail.com>
>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 12:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best ways to send payments -
>> BEATING A DEAD
>> HORSEIs toMorocco
>>
>>
>> >
>> > My point is, and perhaps you can explain
>> why......... Any meteorite
>> > dealer or professional hunter should teach anybody how
>> be a competitor?
>> >
>> > Do you think McDonalds would teach you how to run a
>> restaurant?
>> >
>> > The logic that is used by some of these newbies is
>> what is moronic. I
>> > don't hunt or sell but if I did, I wouldn't expect
>> anyone to teach me how
>> > to be a competitor.
>> >
>> > Respectfully yours.....
>> >
>> > Howard Steffic
>> >
>> >
>> >> From: carothersdl at gmail.com
>> >> To: bencubbin at hotmail.com;
>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best ways to send
>> payments - BEATING A DEAD
>> >> HORSEIs toMorocco
>> >> Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:42:15 -0500
>> >>
>> >> Howard,
>> >>
>> >> Your comment is moronic. This group is as much
>> about posting information
>> >> to
>> >> assist "newbies" as anything else. You should know
>> better.
>> >>
>> >> Dave
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Howard Steffic" <bencubbin at hotmail.com>
>> >> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> >> Sent: Saturday, November 14, 2009 2:17 AM
>> >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best ways to send
>> payments - BEATING A DEAD
>> >> HORSEIs toMorocco
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> Is anyone else getting tired of this moronic
>> discussion?
>> >>>
>> >>> I laugh at how the "newbies" expect the
>> veterans with the battle scars
>> >>> to
>> >>> tell them exacty how to .... Hunt Meteorites
>> or Sell on Ebay or send
>> >>> money overseas. Get off the couch and do your
>> own legwork.
>> >>>
>> >>> Now lets give this thread a proper burrial and
>> get back to meteorites.
>> >>> Didn't someone actually find something (like a
>> meteorite not an alien)
>> >>> that we can talk about?
>> >>>
>> >>> Howard Steffic
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:54:25 -0800
>> >>>> From: abdelaziz_alhyane at yahoo.com
>> >>>> To: spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com;
>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com;
>> >>>> searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net
>> >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best ways to
>> send payments from Canada
>> >>>> toMorocco
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Hello Brian and all,
>> >>>> MoneyGram is available in Morocco, and
>> Abdellah is a good person five
>> >>>> stars in honesty and trust.
>> >>>> My best
>> >>>> Aziz
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --- On Fri, 11/13/09, Brian Cox <searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> From: Brian Cox <searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net>
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best
>> ways to send payments from Canada
>> >>>>> toMorocco
>> >>>>> To: "Melanie Matthews" <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com>,
>> >>>>> meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>>> Date: Friday, November 13, 2009, 2:39
>> PM
>> >>>>> Hi Melanie,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I'm glad you are on top of this and
>> that you are keeping in
>> >>>>> touch with the seller. I'm glad he's
>> mailing back your
>> >>>>> postal money order. Hopefully the
>> Moneyram will work out and
>> >>>>> he'll accept it as he said and you'll
>> get your new
>> >>>>> meteorites.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I wish you all the best and hope that
>> you receive some
>> >>>>> really great and rare meteorites in
>> the group.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Have a great day!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Brian
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From:
>> "Melanie Matthews"
>> >>>>> <spacewoman2775 at hotmail.com>
>> >>>>> To: "Brian Cox" <searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net>;
>> >>>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> >>>>> Sent: Friday, November 13, 2009 1:15
>> AM
>> >>>>> Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Best
>> ways to send payments
>> >>>>> from Canada toMorocco
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Hi Brian, listers.
>> >>>>> Actually it was a postal money order
>> that I
>> >>>>> mailed out to him (Mr. Abdellah
>> Afiniss), and yes it
>> >>>>> included the cost
>> >>>>> of the stones plus the shipping costs.
>> I asked him to mail
>> >>>>> it back to
>> >>>>> me and he said he did.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Once I get the slip back I'm going to
>> >>>>> get back the money I put onto it and
>> re-send the payment to
>> >>>>> him -
>> >>>>> probably via Moneygram (which he told
>> me he accepts).
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> At first offered me a lot total of 8.5
>> kgs of chondrites
>> >>>>> (all
>> >>>>> unclassified),, knowing full well I
>> couldn't afford all
>> >>>>> that I circled
>> >>>>> some stones in Paint.net (free image
>> editing program
>> >>>>> similar to
>> >>>>> MSPaint) that I wanted in the
>> photographs, emailed back to
>> >>>>> him and
>> >>>>> kindly asked him to send me images of
>> each meteorite I
>> >>>>> picked sitting
>> >>>>> on the scale to show their weights...
>> I then worked out the
>> >>>>> prices
>> >>>>> until I made the final decition on
>> buying five rocks
>> >>>>> together weighing
>> >>>>> 837 grams..
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> As I said he has been very
>> cooperative, and I thanks him
>> >>>>> and I thank all here on the list for
>> their
>> >>>>> input/suggestions!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> -----------
>> >>>>> Melanie
>> >>>>> IMCA: 2975
>> >>>>> eBay: metmel2775
>> >>>>> Known on SkyRock Cafe as
>> SpaceCollector09
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Unclassified meteorites are like a box
>> of chocolates... you
>> >>>>> never know what you're gonna get!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> ----------------------------------------
>> >>>>>> From: searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net
>> >>>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>>>> Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:56:13
>> -0600
>> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Best
>> ways to send
>> >>>>> payments from Canada to Morocco
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Hello Melanie and list,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> In regards to your question of
>> sending payments to
>> >>>>> Morocco, I have to ask a
>> >>>>>> couple of questions and others
>> also mentioned they
>> >>>>> weren't clear on your
>> >>>>>> question since you didn't seem to
>> be including
>> >>>>> shipping costs. I'd like to
>> >>>>>> help you out and I mean this in
>> the most thoughtful
>> >>>>> and kindest way
>> >>>>>> possible, so please don't take it
>> negatively or have
>> >>>>> any anger towards me.
>> >>>>>> Make sure you include shipping
>> costs when you were
>> >>>>> determining the total
>> >>>>>> amount of the payment you need to
>> send to the seller
>> >>>>> and then send a check
>> >>>>>> and then say you couldn't afford
>> the FedEx shipping
>> >>>>> costs if that is what
>> >>>>>> you agreed to buy from the seller?
>> You have said this
>> >>>>> in the past about not
>> >>>>>> having money to pay for something
>> or to pay for the
>> >>>>> shipping costs. It's
>> >>>>>> good to ask for help if you are
>> not experienced in
>> >>>>> sending payments outside
>> >>>>>> of Canada beyond Paypal. This
>> sounds like you decided
>> >>>>> to send a check for
>> >>>>>> the meteorites and then were going
>> to decide about a
>> >>>>> payment for the
>> >>>>>> "shipping" as a separate payment
>> or to pay for
>> >>>>> shipping later on. Is this
>> >>>>>> why you stated you couldn't afford
>> the FedEx shipping
>> >>>>> costs after you had
>> >>>>>> sent your personal Canadian paper
>> check? This doesn't
>> >>>>> sound right why you
>> >>>>>> wouldn't determine the full amount
>> due to the seller
>> >>>>> for the items with
>> >>>>>> shipping and or insurance and then
>> send one payment
>> >>>>> and later decide you
>> >>>>>> couldn't afford the shipping costs
>> they gave you.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Also, you stated you sent a "Paper
>> Check" which, as I
>> >>>>> am thinking is a
>> >>>>>> "personal check" from your
>> personal Canadian bank
>> >>>>> account by what you wrote.
>> >>>>>> I'm confused to why would you
>> think that a personal
>> >>>>> check from your Canadian
>> >>>>>> bank account would be "valid" as
>> you say, to a dealer
>> >>>>> in Morocco, which I am
>> >>>>>> sure it is valid in Canada and you
>> have money in your
>> >>>>> account, but most
>> >>>>>> likely would not be accepted in
>> Morocco or any other
>> >>>>> country? You don't
>> >>>>>> often hear of dealers in Asia,
>> Africa, Europe or for
>> >>>>> the most part any
>> >>>>>> dealers in the U.S. or anywhere in
>> North or South
>> >>>>> America or Australia that
>> >>>>>> would accept a personal Paper
>> check from a bank in a
>> >>>>> different country,
>> >>>>>> although it may happen. A check
>> from a Canadian bank
>> >>>>> account or from a U.S.
>> >>>>>> bank account or any personal paper
>> check from any
>> >>>>> other country most likely
>> >>>>>> won't be accepted unless they
>> verified with their bank
>> >>>>> first that they could
>> >>>>>> accept that check. An example
>> would be if there was
>> >>>>> Citibank in Canada and
>> >>>>>> then Citibank in the U.S. would
>> accept that check or
>> >>>>> Citibank in England,
>> >>>>>> etc. .I'm sure if the check was
>> from a bank that had a
>> >>>>> branch in that
>> >>>>>> country that it would be accepted,
>> but it usually
>> >>>>> creates a hassle and is
>> >>>>>> time consuming to stand in line or
>> through an ATM. As
>> >>>>> several members
>> >>>>>> mentioned bank wire is the safest
>> and then probably
>> >>>>> FedEx payment, but
>> >>>>>> sending a paper check or money
>> order isn't a good idea
>> >>>>> as Gary mentioned.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I would like to offer a friendly
>> suggestion to help
>> >>>>> you out. Please make
>> >>>>>> sure you discuss all the facts and
>> figures with any
>> >>>>> dealer/collector
>> >>>>>> anywhere in the world before
>> closing a deal. Remember
>> >>>>> you are entering a
>> >>>>>> contract with this dealer, whether
>> it is on ebay or
>> >>>>> through their website or
>> >>>>>> through correspondence with the
>> dealer. On ebay this
>> >>>>> is stated as you are
>> >>>>>> entering a contract so be mindful
>> of this. You need to
>> >>>>> finalize all costs.
>> >>>>>> You need to get the full amount
>> that you owe in
>> >>>>> writing, email, etc. for the
>> >>>>>> meteorites and any insurance and
>> shipping and then you
>> >>>>> need to first discuss
>> >>>>>> the method of payment to that
>> dealer before you send
>> >>>>> any payment. I think
>> >>>>>> your first mistake here was that
>> it sounds as if you
>> >>>>> didn't determine the
>> >>>>>> full costs of the meteorites with
>> shipping, then you
>> >>>>> didn't ask the seller
>> >>>>>> if he or she would accept a
>> "Personal Paper Check from
>> >>>>> another country. I
>> >>>>>> think you will have much better
>> luck and increase good
>> >>>>> relations with
>> >>>>>> dealers through online sales, ebay
>> and through the
>> >>>>> different meteorite lists
>> >>>>>> you if you slow down and get the
>> facts before making
>> >>>>> purchases and payments.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> As you have written on your posts
>> the equivalent of
>> >>>>> The Tom Hanks character
>> >>>>>> from the Forest Gump movie, "Life
>> is like a box of
>> >>>>> chocolates." You need
>> >>>>>> to stop and think that your eyes
>> are bigger than your
>> >>>>> stomach and stop and
>> >>>>>> think of what you are wanting to
>> bid on or buy first
>> >>>>> and how to pay for it.
>> >>>>>> There is an old saying in America
>> that you may or may
>> >>>>> not know in Canada.
>> >>>>>> "Your eyes are bigger than your
>> stomach" which roughly
>> >>>>> means you saw the
>> >>>>>> food on the menu and you ordered
>> all that looked good
>> >>>>> to eat, but your
>> >>>>>> stomach wasn't big enough to eat
>> it all and you became
>> >>>>> very full before you
>> >>>>>> could finish the meal. This is the
>> same as the child
>> >>>>> that fills their plate
>> >>>>>> up and can't eat it all at home.
>> This also goes along
>> >>>>> with shopping at the
>> >>>>>> store when you are hungry and
>> buying too much, as in
>> >>>>> buying more goodies
>> >>>>>> than you needed. In this case
>> looking at meteorites
>> >>>>> you want to buy and then
>> >>>>>> not carefully researching making a
>> payment and then
>> >>>>> feeling full of
>> >>>>>> frustration and aggravation at how
>> to make the payment
>> >>>>> or what road to go
>> >>>>>> down. I truly hope this helps in
>> the future.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Have a great day!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Brian
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Best ways to send payments from
>> Canada to Morocco
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Hi list,
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Please help - I mailed a payment
>> to a Moroccan dealer
>> >>>>> for a lot of
>> >>>>>> chondrites via a paper check, he
>> got it today, but he
>> >>>>> told me that the banks
>> >>>>>> over there don't recognize it even
>> though it is
>> >>>>> completely valid. I can't
>> >>>>>> afford the shipping costs through
>> FedEx for the lot I
>> >>>>> want - which will be
>> >>>>>> over $200 CND... so what other
>> less expensive options
>> >>>>> do you suggest?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Thank you in advance
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -----------
>> >>>>>> Melanie
>> >>>>>> IMCA: 2975
>> >>>>>> eBay: metmel2775
>> >>>>>> Known on SkyRock Cafe as
>> SpaceCollector09
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> >>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> >>>>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> >>>>> Ready. Set. Get a great deal on
>> Windows 7. See fantastic
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>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> ______________________________________________
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>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
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-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
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..........................................................

Received on Sat 14 Nov 2009 01:54:27 PM PST