[meteorite-list] YD impact and NASA criminal negligence

From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:37:56 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <51959.33128.qm_at_web36904.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Paul -

Just to be upfront about my bias, contempt of Congress is a serious crime, one which Michael Griffin appears to have committed in his response to the George Borwn Jr. amendment, as near as can be made out.

Now moving on to the minor points:

"First a problem is that Native American oral history is not a
straight forward historical account as you insist that it is. It also
includes tribal religious beliefs and moral instruction."

Agree, but words like "a star fell on a town" are pretty unambiguous.

"As a result,history has been interpreted to support religion. "

As it is in European society as well.

"Also, it contains symbolism, which cannot be separate from historical observations."

As in European society.

"Thus, it is a mistake to insist that Native American tradition be
interpreted literally just like Young Earth creationists insists the
Bible be interpreted literally. You are making materialistic
interpretations of literature that hopefully mixed together with
significant amounts of religious revelation, symbolism, and
teaching."

True, but some of it is unambiguous.

"Finally, the Native American oral history lacks any precise and
reliable chronology. Even though oral history make mentions
of an event, it is impossible for you or anyone else to argue that
an event described in oral history is contemporaneous a
hypothesize Younger Dryas event. The events that you talk may
have happened hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands years
before the were first recorded in written form. There is a lack of
any means of securely dating events described in oral history
even if their reality and character is correctly interpreted by you."

That's the power of impact events - the geological and archaeological data, along with orbital mechanics of comets, establish chronologies.

"If civilization was to crumble in the near future and either the
?Stars Fell on Alabama? lyrics were to survive, in oral tradition,
this cataclysm, I can vision future archaeologists and
anthropologists arguing over whether this song is evidence of
the event that caused the fall of our civilization or an earlier
cataclysm at the end of the Pleistocene. If this song was only
preserved in oral history, there would be no way of
determining when the event recorded in this song occurred."

Except for a destruction layer, extinctions, the impactites from blast and perhaps a large circular formation.

EP:Except for the sudden drop in population
evidenced by the ending of quarry usage."

"This interpretation, as a number of interpretations is hotly disputed
and remains unsettled at this time."

Not among those who know their quarries.

EP: While Firestone is a nuclear physicist with little
geological training, in point of fact the layer with
the markers is thin - there was not much material
deposited by this impact, unlike Chicxulub and
Shiva. So unless Ivester was very careful in his
sampling, he could have missed it.?

"You are completely confused here. Dr. Firestone?s comments
concerned only optically stimulated luminescence (OSL) dating)
done by Ivester. The dismissive remarks by Dr. Firestone had
nothing to with impact ejecta or indicators of any type. Your
comments about Ivester missing a thin impact layer are totally
beside the point and irreverent to the discussion."

Not really, the impact layer is thin, and isotopes may be throwing off OSL dating.

"... irreverent Vogon Poetry about NASA omitted..."

NASA has a new Inspector General.

EP:Also, it is entirely possible that neutron production
in impact threw off Ivester's OSL dates. (Odessa
again.)?

"If you take the time to read what is published about OSL dating, you will find that what you propose above scientifically bankrupt
nonsense. This is just a lame ad hoc hypothesis to arbitrarily
dismiss some unpleasant facts."

What we appear to have is peculiar isotopic distributions that throw off 14C and OSL dating. Firestone thinks the neutrons come from supernova, I think that they may just be freed in massive impacts.

EP: As far as one point of impact goes, I can agree
with you about not being in the Lakes. Why?
The Five Nations would not have survived
and left us their account of it. I still favor the
Kiscoty, Alberta structure. Perhaps there are
other similar structures evidencing impacts in
ice sheets elsewhere, but then NASA is spending
$0 looking for them.?

"Do you mean ?Kitscoty?, not ?Kiscoty?? The 2009 SEIS impact
crater database does not list any such reported impact structure."

That may be the correct spelling. My apologies, I've had a major stroke, and working with half my memory.

"...more Vogon Poetry about NASA and Morrison omitted..."

NASA has a new Inspector General. Though let me say something positive about Morrison and Weiler:the tens of millions of dollars wasted looking for Nemesis can at least be used to show the lunatic fringe that "Niburu" does not exist

EP:
Dr. Firestone must be getting closer to nailing
this one down, or he would not upset you so.?

Given that Firestone has only managed with his latest article to
the get the attention of a single rather unimportant, insignificant
person, me, who only has a M.S. in Geology and the other
99.999 percent could care less about what he wrote in it, it
appears that Dr. Firestone nailed only his thumb and nothing
else according to the above logic.

In sharp contrast, the papers written by Dr. Kennett and others
have gotten the attention of major researchers and generated
additional research, and publication."

Kennett and many others were put onto this by Firestone.

Best Regards,

Paul H.

I am working at a strange computer, or I would have typed this better.
Thanks for the civility, in the future I'll try to match it when working with a keyboard I can type at. Arghhh. In any case, thanks for the challenging exchange. In the future, please send money along with your questions.



      
Received on Thu 12 Nov 2009 07:37:56 PM PST