[meteorite-list] Witnessed Falls and Hammers - CARANCAS

From: cdtucson at cox.net <cdtucson_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:13:25 -0700
Message-ID: <20090312011325.1T9CW.97540.imail_at_fed1rmwml40>

Elton,
I am not trying to cross swords with you . I am simply stating that we were the most informed people there at the time. We were picking up meteorites while the list was trying to decide whether the event was caused by a meteorite or a bomb?
In the English transaction on the video A bull is a male animal not necessarily a cow.
This was my very first experience with a fall and with meteorite collection in general. I confess I had no idea that the death of animals would become such am important part of this or there would be photos.
You speak of forensics and necropsy like this all occurred in America. Please keep things in perspective here.
Again no hard feeling I just want people to know that we gathered the information that we thought was impoertant.That's all. This was a learning experience for all of us. Bob told us the dust was worthless. I am glad that turned out wrong. It saddens me that the proper science was not done because even the scientists to this day still disagree with each other on this one. I am still waiting on the cosmochemistry report to be published.
Thank you.
Carl

---- Mr EMan <mstreman53 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> The Astronomical Case of the Carancas Carcasses or The Mystical Matador of Titicaca Scores a Bull's Eye by Elton "Sir Art. C. Doyle" Jones
>
> Well Gosh ,Carl, The short answer is: Huh???? Where did that come from? I am not calling anyone a liar-- Troll? yes Idiot? yes but no one on this issue am I calling a liar.
>
> The long answer is--You don't want really want to go there but, if you insist...
>
> Crystal bulls er balls.. have nothing to do with anything I mentioned. I simply re-reported additional details of what was circulated from various sources and pass no judgment as to the validity of any "fact". Logic does not make these "facts" mutually exclusive. What I recounted stands on it's own merit as a part of a larger event with as many points of view as there were readers and direct observers.
>
> Can I assume that no one in your crew witnessed any animal killing? They saw dead animals and/or animal parts that were reported by witnesses to have been killed by the event (but didn't occur to them to take any photos) To split more hairs, where are the necropsy reports establishing causes or times of death? What is the complete list of carcasses? Someone did take complete perspective photos did they not? No? No one processed the scene forensically? So no dead animal photos reported. As none have been mentioned nor published they probably do not exist elsewhere either.
>
> We have to rely on collective written reports and memories and make a judgment as to what the most likely set of accounts represent reality. Nothing I have seen excludes multiple animal deaths before during and after impact.
>
> I knew of the ewe and llama reports but this is the first I've caught on that there was a bull angle. Frankly, the whole issue is in the noise level for me but this does remind me to look for that box of "meteorite encrusted" dead-horse floggers that I sell from time to time.
>
> Be it remembered we had a troll on the list providing misinformation, a world-wide attack on our hobby, political intrigue and police corruption we only thought was in Hollywood. We had alot of clueless opinions by professionals--remember the condridic pallasite identification by the geologist in charge? ...media grandstanding, mass illness hysteria(?), UFO buffs, Chicken littles sky is falling rants--- We were lamenting the loss of important scientific data and were putting together a bake sale to raise Michael Framer's bail!
>
> NO ONE had the big picture not to mention a whole picture. I still see a lot of false information and did see at the time--enough to know to not accept at face value the reports coming from Carancas. To suggest that I am calling anyone a liar is a distant stretch of the truth. Having a part of the picture is just that-- a part. In this jigsaw picture puzzle, there are apparently both extra pieces as well as missing pieces in the unpublished picture--according to my tea leaves anyway..lol.
>
> I would have loved to have been able to be there with you and your crew.
>
> Elton
>
>
> --- On Wed, 3/11/09, cdtucson at cox.net <cdtucson at cox.net> wrote:
>
> > From: cdtucson at cox.net <cdtucson at cox.net>
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Witnessed Falls and Hammers - CARANCAS
> > To: "Mr EMan" <mstreman53 at yahoo.com>, "meteoritelist" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, March 11, 2009, 1:47 PM
> > Elton,
> > I'm not questioning your memories of a year and a half
> > ago but, If it is so easy to assume the man in the video is
> > a liar then why do you believe anybody from down there? Not
> > everyone in Peru is a liar. Do you have some sort of
> > crystal ball? This man had nothing to gain, He was worried
> > about the health of people and the Animals that my Crew saw
> > were killed by the blast according to the land owner.
> > I'm glad you know which ones to believe and not believe
> > but, I will tell you this; My crew was all highly educated
> > people that spoke the native language as well as Spanish.
> > They wrote this all down and included names and dates.
> >
> > As a character reference to my crew just ask Bob Haag what
> > kind of people they are?
> >
> > Carl Esparza
> >
> > IMCA 5829
> >
> > Meteoritemax
>
> > ---- Mr EMan <mstreman53 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> I recall from reports at the time that some already dead and buried "Carcancas Carcasses" were excavated/exposed by/near the crater.
> > Something else was mentioned during the fog of thought and fear
> > immediately engulfing the event:a claim was made that animals
> > had been killed by the impact in the event a
> > re-reimbursement claim could be made should this turn out to be an
> > errant military munition or other big pocket liability claim.
> > Subsequently the animal deaths were confirmed to have been
> > several days before.AFAIR
> > > >
> > > > So I guess the new moniker for this class could
> > be "grave digger".
> > > >
> > > > Elton
>
Received on Thu 12 Mar 2009 01:13:25 AM PDT