[meteorite-list] [off-list]<--NOT WHATS WITH THE ATTACKING

From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 15:42:11 -0700
Message-ID: <93aaac890907231542l548840dbpb4d1cb3e3556d6da_at_mail.gmail.com>

Regardless of how he contributes, he's wrong in this case.
I don't care if he's a smart bully, because if he is a popular
contributing member it means that he should set a better example for
people, not a worse one.
I've been here longer than most - since 1998. Steve, Elton, and most
others are, if not relative newcomers, they simply haven't seen events
unfold as I have. And I've had to put up with their negative crap for
a good six or seven years now.
It doesn't work.
By all means, complain to Steve, berate him, and talk amongst
yourselves - make a yahoo group or something, but get it off the
bloody list.
It has no place here and if you haven't figured out that it doesn't
work after YEARS of it, I honestly don't know what to say.
Block him maybe?
It takes a click.
Jason

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 1:35 PM, <cdtucson at cox.net> wrote:
> Jason,
> Clearly you are very intelligent. We can all see that But please go easy here. I am a newbie to this list but I have been hunting since 1989 with Bob Haag.
> Elton is not an idiot like Farmer on this list.
> He is one of the lists most popular posters and it is not a stretch to say that people look forward to reading his posts. Whatever he says.
> I read everbody's posts. It matters not what they say but there are a few people that a lot of people look forward to. Elton is probably second only to sterling but there are a few more that this list would really suffer without.
> I also enjoy your posts and I hope you continue with your input but Steve Chicago is a strange nut.
> I like him and have met him personally in Tucson at the Birthday Party. He is a kick but on the list and in his business ethics he is yet another person.
> I guess my point off list here is that knocking a farmer is more acceptable here because everybody knows he is a loaded canon and they know about Steve But please go easy on Elton here. We need to keep all of the brainiacs here including you. Thanks Carl
> Again just my 2 cents.
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> IMCA 5829
> Meteoritemax
>
>
> ---- Jason Utas <meteoritekid at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Elton,
>>
>> > Jason wrote: "Posting messages that were intended to be kept private to the list is wrong - unless they are necessary in proving a situation such as a deal gone wrong, or cheating having taken place,"
>> >
>> > So Jason which of your listed situations applies to what you've just done?
>>
>> You're the one who supported Tom's post. ?How's it feel to have the
>> same done to you? ?Given your response, I don't think you liked it.
>> It proves my point. ?If I'm wrong for doing it, Tom was wrong for
>> doing it. ?Transitivity.
>>
>> a = b
>> b = c
>> ergo
>> a = c
>>
>> (!)
>>
>> > Were you drunk or has that testosterone problem flared up again?
>>
>> Yeah, I may be in college, but not all of us do rubbish like that.
>> Maybe the fact that it's Berkeley has something to do with it. ?There
>> are at least a few smart-ish people up here.
>> That said, given your response, I think it's a bit odd for you to be
>> bandying about testosterone as a cause for anything; unless your balls
>> have dropped off, it's as much a cause for your writing as it is for
>> mine.
>> Unless you're going senile, of course.
>>
>> >You are so predictable-- You attacked Tom, for posting private emails to the list and within 6 hours you've done the same thing.
>>
>> Yes, because I've done this in the past....not. ?It proved my point,
>> at any rate. ?If I'm wrong for doing it, then Tom was wrong for doing
>> it. ?Tom is still wrong. ?And if you learn that, and Tom learns that,
>> then this won't ever happen again.
>>
>> >You've really let me down--I expected it within no more than 4 hours! ?Just as predictable, you didn't have the guts to mail me a copy directly.
>>
>> Emailing directly means nothing when you send a copy to the list, FYI.
>> ?You posted this message to the list as well as myself - I got only
>> one copy, as gmail consolidates things like that into one message.
>> Maybe your email works differently, but the messages should still
>> arrive at the same time, give or take a few minutes (at most), so it's
>> a moot point, regardless.
>>
>> > You've proved what I said about you was right on -- you are incapable of having a man-to-man direct discussion, so you have to enlist the entire list hoping someone will help take the heat off your hypocrisy.
>>
>> Yeah, just look at everyone stepping in to help. ?Oh, wait. ?No one
>> ever steps in. ?Check the archives.
>> I did get a number of private emails though. ?All supportive save two
>> (those two = 1/4 of the messages received).
>> Maybe I just want them to see what kind of a person you are.
>> I wonder why that would work to my advantage, eh?
>>
>> >Put up or shut up.
>>
>> After your last spew of psychological BS, I think you're really not in
>> a place to be saying anything along these lines at the moment.
>>
>> >Show me you've got a pair and address me directly and off list. ?Stop bothering the list with your co-dependency crap.
>>
>> Hardly. ?If you insist on propagating this anti-Steve/'I'm better than
>> you' rubbish, it's staying here. ?I'm not letting you get away with
>> bullying me in private, undoubtedly ignoring the issue in the process.
>>
>> After all, we're still talking about your conduct with regards to the
>> Steve issue, which is...kind of a list issue, assuming, at least, that
>> you're not as stubborn as Steve is, and might change your ways.
>> After all, the only reason I say take the Steve stuff off-list is
>> because its being on-list doesn't serve any purpose; he doesn't care.
>> You say you do care. ?Maybe you'll shut up.
>>
>> > Your discourse started me reflecting. ?I've 186 or so semester hours, postgrad Clinical psych, plus 6 months of internships with sex offenders in southern prisons, state mental hospitals, Alzheimer victims and Chronic DUI offenders so if you want to debate such content, lets form a group at yahoo and have at it but, this isn't the place for it. (NOTE: I have grounds a plenty to justify my preference for meteorites over that for humanity). Oh and you've had what...a self awareness class? Did you pass?
>>
>> First- off, I guess I'm glad that you're so accomplished in the field
>> of psychology, but it seems that you've forgotten some of the basics.
>> Back to the textbook, eh? ?I'm assuming it's been a while since you
>> learned the stuff.
>>
>> I've only taken Psych 1 at Berkeley and some research work on five or
>> so studies. ?Just the standard pre-major (not the other one) general
>> psychology class. ?Of course, if any of my points were incorrect, you
>> may by all means quote me to point out which of my statements
>> regarding the psychological aspect of our discussion was in fact
>> wrong.
>>
>> By all means.
>>
>> I mean, just saying "you're wrong" without saying how or why doesn't
>> get anyone anywhere, especially when I refuted every one of your
>> points - it sounds like you're copping out.
>>
>> But looking at your actions from a psychological perspective, I mean,
>> honestly - you were just trying to use the vocabulary of a subject
>> about which you assumed I knew nothing in order to make me seem the
>> weaker person. ?The trouble is that I knew/know enough to throw your
>> BS back in your face, and now you're circumnavigating your previous
>> point because you know you can't win if you try to keep it above
>> water. ?Classic bullying technique.
>> Attack until the person is down and then kick 'em while you can.
>> But I fought back, and held you off, so now you're completely changing
>> the subject and coming at me with something else.
>> This is just going to be like every other thread we've had where you
>> make some stupid statement, I refute it, and then you just go on
>> arguing some new idiocy.
>>
>> In other words, you're a Troll.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)
>>
>> > Oh! and even though you try to bait me out with false statements here, recheck your claims next time you do post to the list...
>>
>> Really? ?Which one(s)?
>>
>> >Other than ask in a general way for us all to avoid list confrontations over personalities and keep to collecting or commerce issues (which YOU projected to be a post solely about Steve), I've posted nothing to the list about Steve since the temporary eulogy when he "left" last time.
>>
>> Right, as I would expect. ?Steve's leaving meant no more issue with
>> Steve, for you. ?Now he's back. ?Why on earth would you have posted
>> malicious thing about him after he was gone? ?It wouldn't have served
>> your purpose of demonizing him, because then people would have thought
>> you the worse man - if they didn't/don't already.
>>
>> >Put up or shut-- show me the specific post you ramble on about; I know you keep all mine in your scrapbook.
>>
>> Which post(s)? ?We've had this argument several times, and you know
>> it. ?You can get to the archives just as easily as I can, if your
>> memory is still failing you.
>>
>> > Seems clear that now it is you doing the "Steve postings" just like he likes it to happen and tying to make trouble by deliberately distorting reality.
>>
>> But from a psychological perspective, your posts do the same thing.
>> You have your point, I have mine, and we're arguing about who's right.
>> ?The situation we're discussing is the same, but we see it in
>> different ways (hence the distortion). ?If anything, your pointing
>> this out is ironic because, as a psychologist, you should know how
>> arguments work, and yet you're trying to use the point that I'm
>> distorting things to make it sound as though I'm the only one doing it
>> in order to profess my point of view.
>> Ahhh, the irony!
>> Or maybe it's just you being hypocritical again - I think this is a
>> grey area, but it depends on whether you're pointing out that I'm
>> distorting reality versus if you are directly making an accusation.
>> If you're accusing me of doing it, then you're a hypocrite because
>> you're doing it too. ?If you're just pointing it out...well, you're
>> just pointing out that I'm doing something that we're both doing.
>> Ironic when your point is that I'm being the worse person for doing
>> it.
>>
>> >Your post speaks for itself and you've done an excellent job of illustrating the validity of what I wrote (off list) to you--about you. I rest my case.
>>
>> And the fact that you consider it such a horrible thing simply proves
>> my point that Tom was wrong in doing it in the first place.
>>
>> Ergo: Win.
>>
>> Jason
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>
Received on Thu 23 Jul 2009 06:42:11 PM PDT