[meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza

From: Joe Kerchner <skyrockmeteorites_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 18 Jul 2009 09:25:26 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <899298.46086.qm_at_web43408.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

Micheal and list,
    I feel Carl did nothing wrong, He found the strewnfield the only way he could, and he found it. I would have to say he did his homework. I see some hypocritical statements, Who is to say it is not a "free strewnfield" ? When somebody finds a meteorite, they can not call dibs on the strewnfield, So if I find a meteorite I can say nobody get to hunt for more until I say it's ok? That sounds crazy to me, thats just not how things are done. Just cuz it fell in AZ it does not make it any different than anyother fall, most falls are in some meteorite hunbters "backyard/state" that does not give them the right to say when somebody gets to hunt it, if they keep the coordinance serete and somebody find the strewnfield, no matter how they find it, it is fair game for them to hunt and give the coordinance out to whom ever they want to. I feel Steve made a good point, no matter how you found his car, you used the location of his car to get som info from him, no
 matter what you say you were there for, I am pretty sure that you hunted that area eventually. Carl did NOTHING wrong, he found it fair and square, this is nobody's fall, nobody no matter who live near it. IMHO.
Best,
Joe Kerchner
http://skyrockcafe.com




----- Original Message ----
From: Michael Farmer <meteoriteguy at yahoo.com>
To: cdtucson at cox.net; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com; Impactika at aol.com; MeteorHntr at aol.com
Sent: Friday, July 17, 2009 2:13:13 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza


Steve

There are a few differences in these situations.

1. West was a free for all, I merely drove a mile down the road and found 5 or 6 cars and lots of hunters sitting beside the road, not exactly James Bond level work (I know them all) so I stopped. I was not out looking for you. And there were about 50 hunters in the strewnfield at that time, all we were doing was expanding the known area.

2. I was not begging people to give your vehicle information so I could spy on you.

3. This is not a free for all strewnfield yet, and Carl in that email was making offers, that if those he asked gave him my car data, he would make it worth their information.

4. Carl is acting like the searching for my vehicle is meteorite hunting as opposed to taking eyewitness reports, driving all over southern Arizona, taking aziumuths with compasses, and triangulating this fall, which is what Jack did. Homework paid off, he did not stoop to merely looking for the hunters.

Steve, I wanted your data on your West stones more for total known weight and number of stones found more than coordinates. I knew where you were the whole time, and respected your location and me or people with me never hunted where you were. There is some respect involved actually.


If hunters did their homework and showed up in the strewnfield, that is one thing, but to resort to spying on me, that is pitiful, like I said.
I guess I have to watch for cars waiting at my gate from now on. Taking the shortcut is the way of a lazy person.

Steve, there are differences in these situations.
thanks by the way on your congrats for the stone I found, I sent a reply but with the wrong email so it did not go through.


I feel that am IMCA member is acting in a way that is wrong, and Anne seems to agree.

Michael Farmer


--- On Fri, 7/17/09, MeteorHntr at aol.com <MeteorHntr at aol.com> wrote:

> From: MeteorHntr at aol.com <MeteorHntr at aol.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza
> To: cdtucson at cox.net, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, Impactika at aol.com, meteoriteguy at yahoo.com
> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 12:52 PM
> Carl, Anne and Mike,
>
> I am a bit bewildered about this as well.
>
> If Carl had asked what car Farmer drove because he
> wanted to slit his car
> tires, that would be one thing. But I don't
> think that is the case here.
>
> When I was at West hunting, and finding lots of
> rocks, would I ever think
> someone was doing something unethical if someone
> asked what car I was
> driving or where I was parked and hunting?
> No. Would I want them to know? Not
> always. So sometimes I would hide my car, or
> take someone else's to a
> hunting spot.
>
> If someone found my car, would I be mad at them? No.
> Would I file an
> ethics complaint with the IMCA? No.
>
> In fact, one afternoon I returned from a field near
> where we had pulled a
> lot of West stones out, only to see Farmer standing
> by my car waiting.
> Others around said he was waiting there for over a
> half hour to talk with me.
> Did he do anything unethical by doing that? I
> don't think so.
>
> Did that make me want to share all my strewnfield
> data with Mike even
> though he was almost crying on the this list begging
> for me to share it? No,
> his attitude made me want to keep my info even more
> secret.
>
> I find it flattering that Mike finally comes around
> to my way of thinking
> as he gains more experience, as he has in this case.
>
>
> Mike calls this a "Blood sport" but turns around and
> cries "foul" when
> someone wants to know what car he is
> driving? Interesting.
>
> (This is where I would normally insert a humorous
> insult towards Mike, but
> I want the record to show that I have refrained from
> doing so.)
>
> Steve Arnold
> of "Meteorite Men"
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 7/17/2009 1:27:52 P.M. Central
> Daylight Time,
> cdtucson at cox.net
> writes:
> Anne,
> It is hard to believe that you would put this on the
> list.
> Respectfully , this is not Jack's find. Sure Jack can
> claim ownership of
> his finds and nobody is going to take them away from
> him but give us all a
> break here. This is a fall that was observed by dozens
> of people and there
> are dozens of us out looking for evidence of it. I don't
> think this hit Jack
> on the head. I think he also had to figure this out. Why is
> he any better
> than the rest of us???? I simply asked what Mike drives as
> verification but
> obviously I had already figured out the general area. Cat
> Mountain was also
> this big secret that I had to do a lot of work to find out
> where it was. I
> then shared this info with others and it resulted in
> the discovery of
> Snyder Hill while they were looking. This is all good
> and if you don't agree I
> am sorry but How can you say that this is
> Jack's find???? That is
> ridiculous!
> I did not post the location but I did ask Mike if I
> could help earlier and
> he rejected me. This would have made this location
> confidential. Now I'm
> not so sure? And Jack never personally even bothered
> to respond to my list
> posts and requests to help. As you know I offered to
> rescue these critters
> before they drown in the rains. They said no.
> I don't know what material is left to be found but
> hopefully now more will
> be found before they do drown. Again this is all
> good.
> PS what is your call on the leak of a private email your
> Honor?
> --
> Carl or Debbie Esparza
> IMCA 5829
> Meteoritemax
>
> **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See
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Received on Sat 18 Jul 2009 12:25:26 PM PDT