[meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl Esparza

From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 2009 17:00:53 -0400
Message-ID: <e51421550907171400v26d238bcwfc49aa1325d7f2c9_at_mail.gmail.com>

Hi Mike and List,

I often overlook that aspect of the hunt - private property owners.
I'm sure they don't want a repeat of West and crowds of people showing
up wanting on the property. Nobody would want that. I just figured
that 2 people working an entire strewnfield could use some help - not
98 more people, but maybe a half dozen or so. But I am not going to
second guess what you guys are doing on the ground - I just want to
better understand the dynamics involved. You veterans of the List
have the benefit of long relationships here - some good, some bad.
Newbies and people like myself (semi-newbie?) don't have the time to
go back through years of List archives and dredging up all the dirty
laundry from the past - although I admit it is interesting reading
when I have insomnia.

I think it's unfortunate that this is playing out in public. Maybe it
would have been best, as others have said today - to just keep the
entire affair a secret until the fieldwork was done. The effect of
this being on the open List is that the peanut gallery is going to get
another negative dose of the bad behavior of the people in the
meteorite world. It's a wonder they don't think we are all nuts.

Well, regardless, I am keenly curious to learn more about the fall -
in due time. I want to know what the petrologic type is, I want to
see some photos of the matrix, and I want to read some stories about
working the fall. I'd also like to hear that something about the new
fall is anomalous and that science is interested in it - and maybe we
can read about it in later MAPS journals.

BTW - I'll give credit where credit is due - that oriented heat shield
stone you found is superb. I'd be so tickled pink that I wouldn't
have a care in the world until the euphoria wore off. Please do NOT
cut it open - leave it as is.

Best regards,

MikeG




On 7/17/09, Michael Farmer <meteoriteguy at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Actually we have other help, you just don't know about it because we haven't
> told you.
> Carl has called me every name in the book, I would not invite him if he got
> out his wallet and begged me. This is a rare find, what is so hard about
> understanding that it does not need to be shared with everyone?
> It is not that complicated really.
> there are people we do not want to work with, you may not know why.
> Perhaps the landowners don't want 100 people out there. Did you think of
> that?
> Michael Farmer
>
> --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> From: Galactic Stone & Ironworks <meteoritemike at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Pitiful excuse for a meteorite hunter Carl
>> Esparza
>> To: mafer at imagineopals.com
>> Cc: "Michael Farmer" <meteoriteguy at yahoo.com>,
>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 2:40 PM
>> Hi Mike, Steve, Greg, and List,
>>
>> If everyone who hunts the strewnfield puts science first
>> and properly
>> logs the coordinates of each find, mapping the strewnfield,
>> and
>> providing specimens to scientific institutions, then what
>> is the harm
>> in having more boots on the ground to hunt?
>>
>> I think the issue here is mutual mistrust between some
>> people on the
>> List. Obviously people don't trust each other's
>> motives to hunt.
>>
>> Keeping the site secret implies that any outside help will
>> be a
>> hinderance and that the science will suffer the
>> consequences. I am
>> wagering that Dr. Jack called on Mr. Farmer to assist
>> because Farmer
>> gets results - like him or not. But by turning away
>> additional help,
>> Jack and Mike might have judged some people wrong or given
>> the wrong
>> impression for the reasons behind their decision to keep
>> the location
>> a secret. Is it personal feelings? Jack and
>> Mike don't like Carl, so
>> they turned him away from helping? Is it that
>> simple? Or do they not
>> trust Carl's motives - that he might pocket finds for
>> himself and not
>> report or log them? Without knowing the reasons
>> behind the
>> decision-making, those on the List who are watching, have
>> to draw
>> their own conclusions. Part of putting science first
>> is to put
>> personal feelings or prejudices aside. If Jack and
>> Mike were combing
>> the desert in search of a cure for cancer, would they turn
>> away help?
>> I just don't understand some of the dynamics going on here
>> - and as
>> someone who intends to join the hunting fray eventually,
>> I'd like to
>> understand these things so I don't repeat the same mistakes
>> or
>> inadvertently make an enemy out of someone who might be an
>> ally to
>> science later.
>>
>> Personally, I don't give a rats bottom about the
>> personalities of
>> people involved in scientific research. I don't care
>> what music they
>> listen to, what party they vote for, what religion they
>> subscribe to,
>> or who they voted for on American Idol. I
>> would gladly work a
>> strewnfield with ANY person who puts SCIENCE FIRST.
>> Maybe I am naive
>> and I am certainly inexperienced in this respect - but this
>> is how it
>> appears to some on the List like me. I'm probably not
>> alone in not
>> understanding what the big issue is here - it's supposed to
>> be about
>> bringing meteorites to the attention of science in the
>> hopes of making
>> new discoveries that further our understanding of space and
>> planetary
>> sciences. I'd much rather find a new petrologic type
>> that sets off a
>> flurry of research and papers - and have to donate almost
>> the entire
>> mass to the appropriate institution, then find a bunch of
>> OC's and
>> hoard them with the intention of making
>> money. I'm not accusing
>> anyone of the latter - just trying to make a clumsy point.
>>
>> If science comes first, then I don't understand turning
>> away help.
>> That's just my 2 cents - actual worth may vary.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> MikeG
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/17/09, mafer at imagineopals.com
>> <mafer at imagineopals.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Mike, I'm unsure what he's hunting, meteorites or
>> vehicles...might want to
>> > look into lowjack or something.
>> >
>> > Never can tell, eh?
>> >
>> > Mark
>> >
>> > On July 17, 5:56 pm Michael Farmer <meteoriteguy at yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hello list, I was forwarded an email that Carl
>> Esparza, proud IMCA
>> >> member, sent to some other Arizona residents.
>> >>
>> >> IMCA, do you approve of your members, supposedly
>> the people of the
>> >> highest integrity he, he,he he, stooping to spying
>> on other people? Is
>> >> there any action that can be taken on this
>> matter.
>> >>
>> >> This shows how pitiful some of these people are,
>> too lazy to do their
>> >> own homework, and so deceitful that they will
>> resort to pitiful spying
>> >> on other list members rather than do their
>> homework.
>> >> This type of crap is EXACTLY why you are not
>> welcome.
>> >>
>> >> Take this hint, learn how to hunt meteorites and
>> stop trying to worm
>> >> your way in. It takes work to find a meteorite,
>> not scams.
>> >>
>> >> "Hello, Would any of you fellow Arizonians share
>> with me off-List
>> >> what kind of vehicle Mike Farmer drives. Hint- I
>> have been hunting the
>> >> Benson area Fall and don't know what kind or color
>> of cars to look for.
>> >> I promise to share results if any. Thank you. Carl
>> Esparza
>> >> IMCA 5829
>> >> Meteoritemax"
>> >>
>> >> ______________________________________________
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>> >> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________
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>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> .........................................................
>> Michael Gilmer (Louisiana, USA)
>> Member of the Meteoritical Society.
>> Member of the Bayou Region Stargazers Network.
>> Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
>> ..........................................................
>>
>

-- 
.........................................................
Michael Gilmer (Florida, USA)
Member of the Meteoritical Society.
Websites - http://www.galactic-stone.com and http://www.glassthrower.com
..........................................................

Received on Fri 17 Jul 2009 05:00:53 PM PDT