[meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall - detailed...

From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 5 Jul 2009 20:49:10 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <208937.61663.qm_at_web46404.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>

I will break this down some...
> Greg, you seem to have a good heart, but you are coming off as very nasty.>

Thanks, I do have a good heart, and I dont want to come off as nasty - its hard to get your points across how you want them to be on the internet.

> We make a living at this, now you are selling meteorites
and gloating and throwing sand in the eyes of the "big
dealers" on prices. Do you think this will help your
chances?>

I sell meteorites only to help to pay for my collection. When dealers sell stuff like ordinary chondrites for $100 per gram, unless you are rich, you all but have to sell if you want samples of the new falls.
I know what I pay for Lunar, and when I see others charging what they do, it makes me wonder - I am just lucky to get it for what I do or do the dealers really want to make that much off the collectors?
I do not want to throw sand or gloat, but I do speak what I think. It may not always come off like I want it to, but I wont hold my tounge when I have something to say.
As far as my chances, I had nasty emails over what I was selling lunar for, have been turned down many many times when I have asked for help and ideas, I dont think my chances from the well known group like you are in were good to begin with - as you said, why help out the competion?

>I am really not interested in training my competition, so I am not too keen to take people with me. This is not meant to be mean, but
common sense.>

Did Bob Haag not help you out? From what I have read and understand, he did alot. Correct me if I am wrong.
I am far from competition to you, nor would I ever really want to be. As I said, I only sell to help pay for my personal collection - So I sell a few things from time to time... look at my ebay record, then look at yours. Its a struggle for me to come up with enough material to get a power seller status to get a discount for fees!
I have really been into the meteorite hobby for 3 years, how long have you been into it? If you consider me copetition, I take that as an impressive compliment!

I was not able to make it to west, my wife was in her last weeks of Nursing school (she passed and is now an official RN!!) and I now have more time to put into meteorites. I knew you were kind enough to help a few then, I did not understand why not now.

I am eager to learn from the guys like you who for better or worse are well known and who I thought would be great menotrs of sorts... When I am constantly turned down while seeking to better myself and my knowlege on meteorites, it is frusterating as many claim to be in it for the benifit of science and learning - yet are unwilling to really help someone who wants to learn how to do it right.

I can read books all day long (which I do) but when it comes to in the field learning and hands on, books dont do it.

so, to rap up this book, I am sorry if I have offended anyone, it was not my intent. I just think that some of the people out there should remember when they were new at this and how much they wanted to learn and take part in things and consider that when someone asks to help out.
I would have been happy just being there and learning about the aspects of the hunt and documentaion - even if I came back empty handed, the trip would have been worth it to me from the experience I would have gained from it.

Instead, I am now a collector who is really considering walking away from meteorites due to what I feel is an exclusive group who is unwilling to allow someone like me who honestly wants to learn from you all to take part.

Yes, I can do it on my own, but I would rather learn from people who know what they are doing and learn how to do it right instead of blindly stumbling along before I get it right.

Hope everyone is good and had a safe 4th of July.

Greg C.


--- On Sun, 7/5/09, Michael Farmer <meteoriteguy at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Michael Farmer <meteoriteguy at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the Arizona Fall
> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com, "Greg Catterton" <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 10:30 PM
>
> Greg, you seem to have a good heart, but you are coming off
> as very nasty.
> Just go hunt, I learned on my own, most people learn by
> doing. My first real fall was Monahans, then months later
> Portales, I learned on the spot, alone, it was every man for
> himself.
> We make a living at this, now you are selling meteorites
> and gloating and throwing sand in the eyes of the "big
> dealers" on prices. Do you think this will help your
> chances? Come on, I spent ~$50,000 a year on hunts, and let
> me tell you, I must recoup this in sales, or I will be
> living in a cardboard box. Your emails harping on overpriced
> dealers are not falling on deaf ears. Go ahead, do a hunt
> yourself, see what the costs are for stones found, and you
> would find that most in West lost money, even those who
> found stones!
> Get over it, take a chance, do it. I am really not
> interested in training my competition, so I am not too keen
> to take people with me. This is not meant to be mean, but
> common sense.
> Michael Farmer
>
> --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Greg Catterton <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the
> Arizona Fall
> > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 8:25 PM
> >
> > Im glad you seem to understand where I am coming from,
> this
> > was not meant as an attack, just my frustration at not
> being
> > able to join in on what I would consider a great
> learning
> > experience.
> > When I was told it was being kept secret, I felt
> pretty
> > upset at the fact that it seemed to be that something
> of a
> > high scholl clique only type thing.
> > I am newer at this and want to take up as many things
> like
> > this as I can to better learn and understand things
> and
> > thought with the gorup out there currently, I could
> learn
> > alot while contributing in a good manner.
> >
> > I have asked many hunters to tag along on trips,
> becouse I
> > dont know how to do it and really want to learn. each
> time I
> > have been told no.
> >
> > I want to learn how to do this right and if none of
> these
> > guys are willing to help me out or anyone else who
> wants to
> > learn how to do it right, why should I even stay in
> this
> > hobby?
> >
> > Greg C.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- On Sun, 7/5/09, Jack Schrader <schraderj at rocketmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > From: Jack Schrader <schraderj at rocketmail.com>
> > > Subject: [meteorite-list] My thoughts on the
> Arizona
> > Fall
> > > To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > Date: Sunday, July 5, 2009, 5:35 PM
> > >
> > > Dear list members.
> > >
> > > I have today received an email from a person.?
> He
> > sent the
> > > message to the list and not to me personally so
> you
> > already
> > > know who this person is.? If he had sent the
> message
> > to me
> > > personally, I would have treated it with
> complete
> > > confidentiality.? I feel that it is important
> to
> > share the
> > > information I shared with him with the members
> of
> > this
> > > list.? Most of the people on this list have
> been
> > involved
> > > with the science of meteorites for many years
> and
> > have
> > > already gained the knowledge and wisdom that can
> only
> > come
> > > from years of experience. This list has been
> very
> > fortunate
> > > to have been joined by people who are new to the
> > science and
> > > to the wonderful hobby of collecting
> meteorites.? His
> > email
> > > was not sent to be malicious but was sent out of
> > frustration
> > > and out of his enthusiastic desire to be able to
> look
> > for a
> > > new meteorite and to actually find one for
> himself..?
> > These
> > > people who hold this intense enthusiasm are the
> people
> > we
> > > need in this science, this
> > >? hobby. This is the dream we all hold dear, to
> > venture out,
> > > find and be the first one to touch a stone that
> > acually fell
> > > to earth from space.? I have copied the
> information I
> > sent
> > > to him below.? I hope others who are
> experiencing
> > similar
> > > feelings of frustration at the present time will
> > benefit
> > > from this as well.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello.? This fall is a very rare, a very
> important
> > and
> > > historic fall for this state and for the
> University
> > of
> > > Arizona in particular as the site is very
> literally in
> > their
> > > own back yard.? It is vitally important that the
> area
> > be
> > > protected for only as long as it takes to
> properly
> > record
> > > and document the fall.? I have seen what happens
> to
> > an area
> > > when?the location?is announced publicly too
> early.?
> > The
> > > area is almost immediately deluged and over run
> with
> > not
> > > only the true professional meteorite hunters who
> are
> > > actually trying to do something good and recover
> the
> > stones
> > > properly with GPS coordinates and photographic
> > evidence of
> > > the stones in situ but with every treasure seeker
> and
> > rock
> > > hunter and curiosity seeker who could care less
> about
> > the
> > > science but more about simply having something
> cool to
> > show
> > > off to their friends.? This is okay too and
> there is
> > > absolutely nothing wrong with this but right now
> is
> > not the
> > > time for this.? This area is presently
> > >? pristine and kin to a very delicate
> > archaeological site.?
> > > The archaeologists need to do the proper work in
> the
> > area
> > > before the "pot
> > > hunters" find it and destroy any information
> that
> > could
> > > otherwise be learned from the site.? My
> intention is
> > > certainly not simply just for the money or the
> stones
> > that
> > > can be recovered.? When you really give this
> some
> > thought,
> > > you will realize that I did not have to tell a
> single
> > soul
> > > about this.? I discovered this remote area
> entirely
> > on my
> > > own using the knowledge that I have gained over
> many
> > years
> > > of hunting meteorites. I could have very easily
> kept
> > this
> > > site to myself and hunted it for months and
> months.?
> > But
> > > the path I chose was simply to do the right
> thing.? I
> > made
> > > a proper announcement and I have begun
> preparations
> > for
> > > conducting a proper search and recording of the
> fall
> > site.?
> > > Please do not worry.? You will get your
> opportunity
> > to hunt
> > > the area.? There will be stones in this area to
> be
> > > recovered for years to come and you will find
> yours.?
> > And
> > > they will be free, you will not have to buy
> > anything.? The
> > > area as any area where meteorite have
> > >? fallen either in recent or in ancient times is
> > impossible
> > > to
> > > hunt out completely.? I am just simply asking
> for a
> > little
> > > time that it takes to be able to properly record
> this
> > fall
> > > site so the information may be available to the
> > University
> > > of Arizona and to any other institutions and
> > meteoriticists
> > > in the world who may have an interest in the work
> that
> > we
> > > will be doing.? It is too important to risk
> > destroying the
> > > information at this point not only for the
> science
> > that can
> > > be gained from the area but for the generations
> to
> > come who
> > > may have an interest in learning more about the
> > dynamics of
> > > meteors and the variety of strewn field types
> that
> > they
> > > create.? I do appreciate your understanding.?
> My
> > very best
> > > wishes, Dr. Jack Schrader
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ? ? ?
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > >
> >
> >
> > ? ? ?
> > ______________________________________________
> > http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
>


      
Received on Sun 05 Jul 2009 11:49:10 PM PDT