[meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question

From: jbaxter112 at pol.net <jbaxter112_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2009 21:33:03 -0500 (EST)
Message-ID: <29030.10.250.10.1.1232332383.squirrel_at_webmail.medscape.com>

Hi Jeff,

I believe your data about the story but I am surprised. I have to say that
the pieces of Bensour I received are so pristine and rust free, both crust
and interior, that of all the 'falls' listed I would have guessed that
Bensour would have been the LEAST likely to have sat around any length of
time after it fell. Just an observation.

Cheers,
Jim Baxter

> Please don't misunderstand me... I just said there was reason to be
> suspicious from a statistical point of view, and of course there is an
> obvious financial motive. But I was not saying that I thought any of
> the fall stories were false, since I never even tried to assess them.
>
> So let's see if there is consensus to be found here on these recent
> falls. I did a simple reading of the fall accounts and used google
> scholar to search for cosmogenic nuclide or other supporting data. Here
> are my zeroth order ratings of each fall story:
>
> Chergach - highly likely
> Bassikounou - highly likely
> Benguerir - probable
> Beni M'hira - probable
> Bensour - questionable
> Oum Dreyga - questionable
> The new one - nothing to evaluate
> Maigatari-Danduma - ignore since it isn't really in the NWA region
>
> Bensour is such a weak story that I'm leaning towards changing it from a
> fall to a find in my database, which is basically what the MetBull
> article also said. I'm not even sure how it got listed as a fall. Do any
> of you take issue with this?
>
> The Oum Dreyga story also has strange elements. The witnesses saw it
> "falling on ... [the] mountains," which probably means that if there was
> a real fall, it was very distant. The fact that many of the stones
> were weathered also raises my doubts. So I rate this as weak. Anybody
> want to take the stand on Oum Dreyga's behalf? Or argue against any of
> the ones I called probable or highly likely?
>
> If two are really finds and one is eliminated because it is really not
> in this region, then we are left with 4 in the 2000s decade, plus the
> new one which remains to be seen. Four is certainly a more palatable
> number than eight from a blind statistical point of view, neglecting
> other sociological factors.
>
> Jeff
>
> Dr. Svend Buhl wrote:
>> Interesting debate. Reminds me on the good old days of the Acedemie
>> Francaise, the days before Biot and Chladni, where scientists doubted
>> the accounts of local eyewitnesses on rocks falling from the skies for
>> sociological reasons.
>>
>> As far as I am concerned, I still trust the people who measured e.g.
>> the cosmogenic radionuclides of the meteorites produced by these
>> recent falls. I absolutely doubt that the Swiss or French labs who
>> worked on these stones made up their results just to make them fit the
>> newspaper reports and eyewitness accounts.
>>
>> Svend Buhl
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Grossman"
>> <jgrossman at usgs.gov> To: "Meteorite-list"
>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 17, 2009 11:27 PM
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Northwest Africa Falls - Question
>>
>>
>>> Martin and list,
>>>
>>> Actually, there is something suspicious. Northwest Africa (the
>>> countries you listed plus Western Sahara and Tunisia) has seen
>>> between 0 and 3 falls per decade from the 1900s through the 1980s.
>>> The 1990s saw 6, and the 2000s have now got 8. There is no parallel
>>> increase in the rest of Africa, which in fact has been steadily
>>> declining in fall rates since the 1940s. Europe has also been
>>> declining since the 1930s (in fall rates), as has North America. I
>>> think northwest Africa is the only place in the world that is seeing
>>> any kind of increase in rate, and it has been dramatic, tripling in
>>> the last decade.
>>>
>>> The are various sociological reasons why this increase might have
>>> happened, which we can argue about. But there certainly IS something
>>> to raise ones eyebrows.
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>> Martin Altmann wrote:
>>>> Hi Ryan,
>>>> it's because of the iron mountain in Atlas, which still has to be
>>>> found and
>>>> which attracts with his magnetic field all iron-bearing lumps from
>>>> space.
>>>>
>>>> No. Take a World map, hold little Europe (forget a little bit about
>>>> Scandinavia),
>>>> hold it against that NWA region, Algeria, Mali, Niger, Morocco,
>>>> Mauretania....
>>>>
>>>> And let's count the falls:
>>>>
>>>> Let's start with Zag 1998.
>>>>
>>>> NWA-Regions:
>>>>
>>>> Zag 1998
>>>> El Idrissa 1998
>>>> Djoumine 1999
>>>> Beni M'hira 2001
>>>> Bensour 2002
>>>> Oum Dreyga 2003
>>>> Maigatari-Danduma 2004
>>>> Benguerir 2004
>>>> Bassikounou 2006
>>>> Chergach 2007
>>>> And now the new possible fall.
>>>>
>>>> Europe:
>>>>
>>>> Ourique 1998
>>>> Leighlinbridge 1999
>>>> Moravka 2000
>>>> San Michele 2002
>>>> Neuschwanstein 2002
>>>> Alby sur Cheran 2002
>>>> Villalbeto 2004
>>>> Moss 2006
>>>> Puerto Lapice 2007
>>>> Romanian Fall 2008
>>>>
>>>> 11 : 11.
>>>>
>>>> So nothing suspicious.
>>>>
>>>> USA had 7
>>>> India 10
>>>>
>>>> Best!
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ok Folks,
>>>>
>>>> I am curious to know why there are so many witnessed (recovered)
>>>> meteorite
>>>> falls in Northwest Africa as opposed to anywhere else in the world.
>>>> Is there
>>>> a good logical and/or scientifc explanation for this?.. or just a
>>>> coincidence? I understand that some "falls" simply turn out to be a
>>>> case of
>>>> Nomadic lies in an attempt to liquidate (recycle) old material, but
>>>> what
>>>> about the others? Perhpas it has something to do with it's
>>>> geographical location in relation to..?
>>>> And yes, I do understand these people spend countless hours
>>>> outdoors, in the
>>>> desert, ect. but..
>>>>
>>>> What are your thoughts?
>>>>
>>>> Ryan
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184
>>> US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383
>>> 954 National Center
>>> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>>>
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>>> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>>
>> ______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184
> US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383
> 954 National Center
> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>
>
> ______________________________________________
> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
> Meteorite-list mailing list
> Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
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Received on Sun 18 Jan 2009 09:33:03 PM PST