[meteorite-list] Progress or ruination?

From: MeteorHntr at aol.com <MeteorHntr_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2009 13:38:56 EST
Message-ID: <cb4.4bc968dc.3698f3c0_at_aol.com>

Hey MikeG,

First off, the Atacama is a very large place. Lot's of meteorites still to
be found in desolate areas. I don't think there will be any concern about
filling up a fraction of 1% of it, much less all of it. There would be room
for several billion inmates if anyone decided to build a prison there.

WARNING, I am swerving off the Meteorite Topic in the rest of my email!

Second, I do want to take issue with you on your comment:

"But, we also have to recognize that opinions such as these reflect our
cultural values. We are trying, again, to force our views of life
and standards of living on other cultures. The wealthy powers have
always done this - we are saving the savages from damnation and
bringing them the dignity of literacy and running water. Sound
familiar?"

I really don't think this is a matter of western culture's Hollywood forcing
their morals on the rest of the world people who are living a more
traditional life. I think this is a matter of letting people make the choice for
themselves. There is a reason why Coca-Cola is everywhere, there is something
about it that makes people like to buy it once the pop machine is plugged in.

Actually, I would think historically there is more precedent for the wealthy
powers to want to keep the masses poor, dependent and ignorant, rather than
prosperous, independent and educated.

It seems around the world, it is the local leaders (often religious) that
want to stop our western culture from spreading into their strongholds, and all
the while it is their people, that they control, that want the freedom.

Yes, rich people or governments (not that the Chilean Government should be
considered "wealthy") will be putting up the hotels and will cultivate the
tourism. Yes, it might encroach on some people that want the old simple life in
the San Pedro hut. But, if the business efforts are successful, then the
poor people can sell their hut for $1,000,000 move a hundred kilometers down
the dirt road, build or buy another $1,000 house, and put the rest of the
money under their mattress, or burn it for a cooking fire.

Ask 500 poor people in the village if they each want $1,000,000 and the
choices of life that money would bring, or to be stuck in their poverty? My
guess is that 498 will say they want the money and the choices it brings.

Such is progress. I think letting people have their own choice is
important. More often than not, people that are held back, without the choices, are
ones that would rather break out of the restraints of their parents culture.
After all, it wasn't a child's fault they were born when and where they were.

The irony is that many in our modern western culture are tired of it, and
are looking for something new, or in some cases, something old. Cool. That is
what choice and freedom are all about. And a little prosperity helps one
have more choices.

NOTICE: All these comments come from a guy who lives in the sticks of
Arkansas, in a dry county without a single movie theater or even a single stop
light, who lives in a hand hewn dog trot log cabin built in 1866 and who just
got TV a couple of weeks ago and who home schools his kids.

I know, such an email as this can incite riots.

And I would probably agree with 99% of what people say about how evil our
culture is, and how it would be best if the rest of the world was NOT like us.

Anyway, I just know how excited I was to get away from the culture of my
small Kansas town I grew up in, to get to the big city culture when I got out of
high school.

The grass is always greener, isn't it?

Choices are wonderful.

God Bless America!

Steve Arnold #1
Arkansas





In a message dated 1/9/2009 11:36:02 A.M. Central Standard Time,
michael_w_gilmer at yahoo.com writes:
Hi Steve and Mike,

I would be one hell of a pretentious upstart to disagree with someone
who has actually been there. My travels in the Atacama are limited
to armchair fantasies and future pipe dreams. I do hope to visit
there one day in the future, but I'd like it to look like ATACAMA
when I get there, and not Orlando Florida.

Steve, I can't argue with the logic and rationale of what you say here :

-----------------

"But, also as unforgettable, was all the trash strewn about the highway for
thousands of miles up and down the Pan American highway. Somebody forgot to
put up the "Keep Chile Clean" signs. Litter was so abundant, especially at
railroad crossings. Burned out cars and buses were sitting on the side of
the
road from car wrecks years if not decades before. What 99% of people saw
when traveling on the highway(s) of Chile was the trash, not the beauty.
You
had to get off the highway before things would clean up.

So to me, my hunch is that if there are high class hotels coming in to the
San Pedro de Atacama, my bet is that they will at least clean the trash up
on
and around their own property. They might even pay to have the other trash
in public areas cleaned up as well. So in a way, the development might be a
good thing.

And the situation with the residents there, imprisoned in poverty, is sad.
I am sure they, like most anyone else in the civilized world would like to
have a good job, be able to afford TV, a nice car, good health care, maybe
be
able to send their kids off to college to have a CHOICE as to what they want
to do with their life.
For those of us with enough money to travel there, it is fun, but we get to
leave and choose where we go next. To be stuck there for one's whole life,
it might get to be a drag after a while. If they can make a buck and
improve
their life, who are we to say that is bad?"

-----------------------------------------------

But, we also have to recognize that opinions such as these reflect our
cultural values. We are trying, again, to force our views of life
and standards of living on other cultures. The wealthy powers have
always done this - we are saving the savages from damnation and
bringing them the dignity of literacy and running water. Sound
familiar? It's the first step on the well-worn path to cultural
genocide. Of course Coca Cola is better than their local concoction
made of who knows what. And of course Starbucks expresso would be
a nice treat while combing the deserts. And it would be nice to
have a payphone in the middle of the desert, or cellphone service
to call a tow truck. But these people have lived this way for
centuries and they are fine with it. We, as "civilized" westerners,
are the ones who have a problem with their apparent poverty. At
what cost does one sell a soul? To be honest, I don't know if this
represents "progress" to any of the locals. Sure, it means a few
more pity dollars thrown their way by wealthy travelistas, but it
also means the disappearance of another culture that has existed for
centuries without outside interference and dominance.

Having said all of that, litter is natural places disgusts me. And
I have never understood what it is about being poor than means a
person has an excuse to be filthy. I drive past economically-depressed
areas and see dozens of able-bodied people lounging around or loitering around
while they are surrounded by trash everywhere. None of them think to take 5
minutes and pick it up and put it in a dumpster that is usually 10 feet away.
Apparently being poor is
intrinsically related to tolerance of trash and dirt. Even if I was
spit-poor, I'd have the cleanest and neatest mud hut in the village.

Well, I guess when we have a wall-to-wall neon and concrete world, then
we'll finally be happy....right? Or will this compulsive need to
spread "progress" extend to other cultures we encounter while
exploring space?

Best regards and clear skies from the closet-mountain-man,

MikeG

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Received on Fri 09 Jan 2009 01:38:56 PM PST