[meteorite-list] Beware of Steve Arnold Chicago Ebay scams part 3+

From: Meteorites USA <eric_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 08:54:24 -0700
Message-ID: <4A8EC330.10906_at_meteoritesusa.com>

Hi listees,

I probably shouldn't respond to this. But it is related to meteorites.
This is NOT an attack on anyone, but rather something to add a little
perspective to the situation.

I too have spoken with Dirk on many occasions and find him a rather
interesting guy to speak with. He's always polite and professional and I
respect him, his site, and what he has contributed to the meteorite
community. However I have to disagree (in a respectful way) with the use
of the words scam, and fraud in this case. These are libelous words if
no proof exists, and can be considered real accusations of fraud. Legal
issues could come of this.

Canceling an auction when it has bids is NOT a legal issue, though it
may be unethical IF the only reason is to sell to another person off of
Ebay. Which is a breach of Ebay policy and violation of Ebay's TOS
(Terms of Service).

However... Even though it is against Ebay policy, it's NOT against the
law. To throw around words like scam and fraud is dangerous in this
circumstance. Even habitual canceling of auctions may not be illegal.
Certainly unethical, but illegal? I don't know.

Let me give you a scenario. Let's say you're seller, and you list an
item for sale. It gets a few bids and you're excited to sell it. Then in
your excitement as you're moving stuff around your office or store you
accidentally break the item! Ooops! Now what? You immediately send out
an email to the persons bidding notifying them of the problem right?
NOPE! Ebay doesn't allow you to contact bidders (unless of course they
are a previous customer). Now you're in a pickle. What to do? Is it
fraud if you end your auction even though you have bids? If you think it
is then you need not be on Ebay because you don't know how Ebay works.
Again, no offense... Ebay is NOT the law, it's a website that people
sell on. Simple as that.

I'm not saying this to defend Steve, but rather to point out that the
libelous words used are inappropriate for this circumstance. Simply
canceling an auction is not grounds for the words used unless you have
proof. A link to an auction that has had canceled bids is NOT proof of
anything other than an ended auction.

I certainly hope I do not lose business because of this post, if so then
those who would not purchase from me for such reasons, well, let's just
say I would rather not have them as customers anyway. No offense...

I have no problems with Steve personally or business wise. Steve has
NEVER scammed or conned me out of anything EVER. If he had I would never
do business with him again. He has been a good customer since I've been
selling meteorites, as have many of you.

Sometimes people confuse Ebay with the law, and this infuriates me as a
seller. It's something I'm obviously passionate about because I've been
selling for so long, but what really irks me is that people assume that
because Ebay says it's so, then it's gospel. Ebay sucks for sellers!
Everyone who sells on Ebay knows that. Their fees are outrageously
expensive and equates to 15% to 25% of your gross sales. The only reason
we use Ebay at all is for the reach. The sheer advertising power is
phenomenal. You can reach millions of potential customers for pennies.
THAT'S why Ebay is so popular. Oh, and because you can find really good
deals on cool stuff like meteorites too... ;)

The point to this post is not that I'm attacking or defending anyone but
rather pointing out that there are valid reasons for sellers to cancel
an auction. Maybe you listed an item and it got stolen, or broken, or
you relisted it by accident (this might happen to a larger seller who
lists hundreds or thousands of items per month). Maybe it was a grilled
cheese sandwich with Jesus on it and your dog ate it!

Thanks for reading this very long post. I promise my next one won't be
as long... ;)

Regards,
Eric










John Gwilliam wrote:
> Dirk and List,
>
> Friday morning editorial.
>
> It will be interesting to see how Steve Arnold Chicago responds to
> this allegation, that is, if he responds at all. My guess is that
> he'll go into hiding for a time and then reappear as if nothing has
> happened. But, in all fairness, I'm willing to wait a day or two and
> see how it all shakes out.
>
> I've known Dirk for a lot of years and spent many hours on the phone
> with him when two of our fellow List members were on an extended
> "vacation" to Oman. He's a stand-up guy and I don't recall ever
> hearing anything negative about him. Chicago Steve, on the other hand,
> well... I think I'll simply let his reputation speak for itself.
>
> If I had to put my hard earned cash on the table and gamble on the
> outcome of this situation, I think that all of you already know who I
> would bet on. Exposing fraud on the internet and within our
> communities is, or should be, the duty of all honest people. If your
> support of someone is colored by free beer, personal favors or, in
> this case, freebie meteorites, then maybe it's time to take a look in
> the mirror.
>
> I'm trying not to be bias. I'm merely relying on past experience to
> help me make a judgement call for myself. If some of you think this
> makes me a "naysayer" then so be it.
>
> Best Regards, and have a great weekend,
>
> John Gwilliam
>
> At 02:41 AM 8/21/2009, drtanuki wrote:
>> Dear list,
>> Steve Arnold Chicago has another Ebay scam?; pulling
>> the auction the day of the auction and cancelling all bids. Or Steve
>> do you have a very good explanation?
>>
>> Potential buyers or bidders beware! And whoever purchased the
>> meteorite outside of EBAY, if they did, you are just as guilty as Big
>> Steve.
>>
>> Any other bidders that are List members or have had the same happen
>> on his other auctions please contact me as I am going to lodge a
>> formal complaint with EBAY and have him removed as a seller.
>>
>> For all of you naysayers that take his free "gifts" and support him
>> on the met-list please take a look and think before next time coming
>> to his aid as a dupe.
>> Thank you! Dirk Ross...Tokyo
>>
>>
>>
>> Item number:290341318450
>> http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=290341318450
>> >
>> >
>> > Bidder s***v (Feedback score is 100 to 499)
>> > Cancelled: US $13.00
>> > Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
>> > cancelled all bids. Bid: Aug-19-09
>> > 07:12:41 PDT
>> > Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
>> > Bidder 6***rFeedback score is 500 to 999
>> > Cancelled: US $27.99
>> > Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
>> > cancelled all bids. Bid: Aug-19-09
>> > 09:55:51 PDT
>> > Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
>> > Bidder s***s Cancelled: US $12.00
>> > Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
>> > cancelled all bids. Bid: Aug-19-09
>> > 06:53:49 PDT
>> > Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
>> > Bidder l***eFeedback score is 100 to 499
>> > Cancelled: US $46.98
>> > Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
>> > cancelled all bids. Bid: Aug-18-09
>> > 19:52:27 PDT
>> > Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
>> > Bidder c***4Feedback score is 50 to 99
>> > Cancelled: US $59.65
>> > Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
>> > cancelled all bids. Bid: Aug-19-09
>> > 10:23:52 PDT
>> > Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
>> > Bidder n***aFeedback score is 50 to 99
>> > Cancelled: US $1.25
>> > Explanation: The seller ended the listing early and
>> > cancelled all bids. Bid: Aug-18-09
>> > 20:50:08 PDT
>> > Cancelled: Aug-20-09 17:26:00 PDT
>> >
>> ______________________________________________
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>
> John Gwilliam
>
> Too many people were born on third base
> and go through life thinking they hit a triple.
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Received on Fri 21 Aug 2009 11:54:24 AM PDT