[meteorite-list] Kem-Kem was never the generic for NWA

From: Zelimir.Gabelica at uha.fr <Zelimir.Gabelica_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 12:09:47 +0200
Message-ID: <20090814120947.hnuc70z0cjpwo0s8_at_w3mail.univ-mulhouse.fr>

Hi List,

To bring a little more confusion to the "Kem-Kem issue", here is
another story.

It deals with a meteorite found in South Morocco in 1998 (31?7'N /
5?11'W), thus at a time the generic NWA designation did not exist.

That one stone weighing 1088 g was found by Michel Franco and, after
analysis, the remaining mass of 942.5 g of that L6 was offered for
sale (if I remember well at the Ste Marie-aux-Mines mineral show in
1999, where I purchased it).

Michel told me that although fully analyzed at Open University, it had
not yet a name but that he proposed "Kem Kem"....

I don't know whether it was the first time that such name was proposed
but Michel was very confident it will be accepted by the Nom. Com. so,
in the meantime, I catalogued it in my collection using "Kem-Mem" as
provisional name.

Months or even years later, Michel told me that it eventually received
another "generic" name, thus "NWA 052" (the NWA nomenclature just
appeared in the Bulletins).
I then changed the name but added "Kem-Lem" as SYNONYM.

If you go to the Met Bull database, you will see that they now mention
"Kem-Kem" as ORIGIN or PSEUDONYM for NWA 052, which seemed logical.

Now after the debate we had these days and the clearings brought by
Jeff, it is obvious that for my NWA 052, "Kem-Kem" is the origin, not
a synonym nor pseudo.

(I note that the same mention "origin or pseudonym: "Kem-Kem" is
mentioned for NWA 753 (R3.9) found years after and this might also
probably be the case for some other NWA's (I didn't check), which is
in line with the whole issue cleared by Jeff.

I will (just personally) retain "Kem-Kem" as synonym of my NWA 052 for
"historical purposes", supposing this was the first NWA oringinating
from the vast Kem-Kem region (something I am far from being sure - I
did not check).

I wish to thank once again Jeff for his statements, that are of real
importance.

My best,

Zelimir

PS: if anybody is interested, I can provide a list giving all the
synonyms of the meteorites sitting in my collection, should this be of
some help or general interest for someone.



Jeff Grossman <jgrossman at usgs.gov> a ??crit??:

> The Kem Kem meteorites from Casper were a trigger for the NomCom
> approving the NWA designation, which was my coinage in January 2000.
> But to really understand the history, you need to go back a few
> years earlier, to El Hammami (aka Hamada du Draa), which was the
> first case for which the NomCom became aware that meteorites were
> being transported and sold in this region. With this history, plus
> a series of inquiries from other dealers about the Kem Kem
> meteorites, compounded by our inability to learn many details about
> those meteorites from Casper, we needed to take action of some kind.
> We decided on a generic term, Northwest Africa, that could be
> applied as a "tracking" label to all stones, even ones that had not
> been classified, so that individual meteorites would not be divided
> and sold under multiple names. We also had no ability to
> investigate multiple vague or anonymous claims about meteorite
> provenance in the region. Thus it was decided that all of these
> meteorites would be named NWA, even those that had been classified.
> I'm not sure what ever happened to the Kem Kems that triggered the
> whole thing. Since I don't think Casper ever numbered them, there
> were no synonyms to publish, assuming they eventually became NWAs.
>
> jeff
>
>
> Jeff
>
> At 01:02 AM 8/10/2009, Jason Utas wrote:
>> Dirk, Brian, All,
>> This came up on the list a while back; from what I understood, Casper
>> sold those as well as a number of other stones under that name around
>> that time, and only classified one stone, before grouping a number of
>> similar-looking meteorites together under that name (I believe the
>> mentality was that of the meteorite-world pior to the NWA rush, where
>> not every piece had to be classified to verify its composition). And
>> while not every piece does have to be classified in many cases, this,
>> I believe, was a situation in which things were not made certain. I
>> never got the catalog at the time, bit I do recall there being some
>> consternation as meteorites were being misclassified/misnamed.
>> Hence the confusion, as the name applies to a number of late 1990's
>> NWA meteorites which came out of the area via Casper. I might only
>> call it a generic name at this point because it is a name that applies
>> to a number of petrographically distinct meteorites. Single name,
>> unknown number of meteorites. I don't know if it quite fits the
>> definition of the word "generic," but if it doesn't, it's not far off.
>> Regards,
>> Jason
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 9:52 PM, drtanuki<drtanuki at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Brian and List,
>>> Brian your are incorrect in your history lesson.
>>> Michael Casper announced in his December 1999 catalogue that "a
>>> new find out of Morocco- Kem-Kem" was "Found in August, 1999.
>>> Stone. Classification pending. Kem Kem, Dahara, Morocco".
>>> Casper`s catalogue lists:
>>> 22.4g _at_ $44.80;
>>> 26.9g_at_ $53.80
>>> 31.5g_at_ $63.00
>>> 33.5g_at_ $67.00
>>> 41.0g_at_ $82.00
>>> 46.8g_at_ $93.60
>>> 53.2g_at_ $106.40
>>> 58.6g_at_ $117.20
>>> 67.4g_at_ $134.80
>>> 70.0g_at_ $140.00
>>> 83.1g_at_ $166.20
>>> 114.9g_at_ $229.80
>>> 153.6g_at_ $307.20
>>>
>>> In the same catalogue, he (Casper) has a multi-kilo piece
>>> photographed, which I purchased. Kem-Kem was NOT a catch-all term
>>> for the meteorites of NWA (Moroc/Algeria) at the time, as you wrote.
>>>
>>> So please do not confuse the messy history of the NWAs by
>>> INCORRECTLY calling Kem-Kem the orginal generic name before NWAs.
>>>
>>> I was in Morocco in December 2000- January 2001 for six weeks and
>>> at Kem-Kem prior/during the sale of NWA482 in the year of the
>>> planetary alignment and eclipse... there were UK-Euro-hippies by
>>> the busloads for the huge festival and arrested development.
>>> The only great "hunter" that I ran into while I was there was Dean
>>> Bessey in his Fiat at Merzouga (he dismounted his for shade);
>>> prior to Bessey Specks perhaps not?
>>>
>>> Missed seeing Mike Farmer, Strope and others; but, I did spot a
>>> mad German or Austrian at the petrol stop during the heat of the
>>> day. Also missed the Great Habibi!
>>>
>>> When in Erfoud don`t miss out on the daily variety of Targine
>>> beef, mutton or chicken and 30 glasses of mint tea.
>>>
>>> At the end of six weeks of wearing Berber you will be blue...Idir
>>> met Idir et Kem-Kem! Truly an awesome experience to be at Kem-Kem
>>> at SunSet on top of a tall hill and watch the winter shadows fall.
>>>
>>> Forget the Berber Shave and stick with Burma Shave if you are
>>> searchingforfun.
>>>
>>> Best Regards, Dirk Ross...Tokyo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --- On Mon, 8/10/09, Brian Cox <searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Brian Cox <searchingforfun at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Kem Kem, the original generic name
>>>> before NWAs, Northwest African meteorites
>>>> To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
>>>> Date: Monday, August 10, 2009, 12:02 PM
>>>> Here is a link to my 19.7 gram Kem
>>>> Kem meteorite specimen, originally from Planet Brey
>>>> meteorites about 9-10 years ago. Kem Kem was the name that
>>>> was used approximately between 1999-2001, I was told, from
>>>> our fellow history buffs on the list and other IMCA members
>>>> for what we now call "NWAs" "Northwest African" meteorites.
>>>>
>>>> I added a photo of the original COA/card from Planet Brey
>>>> just now in this auction.
>>>>
>>>> http://cgi.ebay.com/KEM-KEM-Meteorite-19-7g-IMCA-COA-Unclass-Probably-H5_W0QQitemZ270440268847QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3ef77f042f&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, and clear happy meteorite filled skies tonight!
>>>>
>>>> Brian
>>>>
>>>> IMCA # 6387
>>>>
>>>> searchingforfun is my
>>>> ebay User ID
>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>
> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman phone: (703) 648-6184
> US Geological Survey fax: (703) 648-6383
> 954 National Center
> Reston, VA 20192, USA
>
>
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Received on Fri 14 Aug 2009 06:09:47 AM PDT