[meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My Caredition)

From: MeteorHntr at aol.com <MeteorHntr_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 03:03:01 EDT
Message-ID: <cfc.52680fbb.37070ea5_at_aol.com>

Dave,

This reminds me of when I was in Park Forest, actually in Steger, IL, 6
years ago this week, where a local man had his rear window of his car knocked out
by a meteorite. I asked him if he wanted to sell the meteorite, and he made
it plain to me that he would not sell it for ANY price.

Taking him at his word, I dropped the subject and I then asked him if he
might be interested in selling the shattered broken glass from the impact? To
which he said he very well might, and then asked what I would offer him for
it. I delayed in giving him an answer on the spot, and returned to talk with
him a couple of days later, possibly to close the deal for the glass.

When I got back with him, he informed me that he had just sold the meteorite
that day. When I asked for how much, it was something in the neighborhood
of $8 a gram, maybe $350 for the 40 ish gram stone.

Trying not to look too upset, I reminded the guy that he had told me that he
would not be willing to sell it for ANY price. He said "Yea, but I had no
idea anyone would pay THAT much for it, I just couldn't say no" he told me.

I was too sick to let him know I would have gladly paid him 4 times that
much, maybe even more.

But it was my lesson to learn that just because some people say "no" it
doesn't always mean "no!"

Sometimes they fib to start the negotiations at a better spot. Sometimes
they do in fact mean "No" as was the case with me and the Caldwell, Kansas
stone. Sometimes they just don't know what they are saying "no" to!

Should I have risked offending the man and had pressed him with a $1,000
offer for his rock? Or at least a $400 offer???

Steve Arnold
Arkansas


***********************

In a message dated 4/2/2009 11:36:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time,
carothersdl at gmail.com writes:
Steve,

You asked: "So why do you still think that I think he OWES me an
explanation?"

As I stated in my last post, it comes from comments like "Often times,
people have very valid objections. Other times, they don't." or "Sometimes
they will say they don't want you to hunt because 23 years ago, a fisherman
left a gate open and some cows got out. But usually that isn't a valid
reason for never letting anyone ever come on their land again." Another
comment you made regarding the issue of asking to search a property was:
"Granted, people lie." Well, maybe they do, but the point is, so what? It's
 
their property and they don't need to explain past the answer... No.

When you say things like the above, in the context of trying to get
permission to search a property from a land owner, what is being implied is
that 1) the person owes you an explanation and 2) if the person does give
you a reason, that reason must somehow be validated as being reasonable by
you.

I apologize if I'm reading way too much into this, but I've run into a
similar situation and maybe that's why I'm sensitive to this. I've had
people wanting to buy property from me and they just won't take a simple NO!
for an answer. They too want to ask the question "Why won't you sell it to
us". I'm sorry, but I don't owe them or anyone else an explanation. Even
if I did provide an explanation, what then? They try to tell me why I'm
"wrong" and should sell to them. That to me is being arrogant.

One last item. I did not, nor would I ever say or imply that you were rude
or that your conversations with land owners are contentious or anything like
that. From all accounts, you have a stellar (no pun intended) rep. I thank
you too for your courteous replies.

Regards,

Dave

----- Original Message -----
From: <MeteorHntr at aol.com>
To: <carothersdl at gmail.com>; <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 10:37 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] -2 arrested update (Dude-- Where's My
Caredition)


Dave,

You said:

"I thank you for the detailed explanation, but I still have issue with your
idea that a land owner would owe you an explanation other than "No" when
asked to search their property."


When I clearly stated in my last post:

"Does he have an obligation to tell me why he said no? Of course not. And
did I even imply that he was obligated to? But if you don't ask, often you
don't get an answer."

*****

So why do you still think that I think he OWES me an explanation?

I don't think he owes me to let me hunt on his land, but I still ask.

He didn't owe me an explanation, but I still asked for one.

Besides, if someone owes you something, you demand, you don't ask.

I didn't demand anything, I just asked. I wasn't rude. He wasn't rude. He
didn't kick me off his driveway. He didn't even ask me to leave nor did he
end the conversation. We had a short, 3 minute talk, then I left when it
was
evident he didn't care if meteorites would be lost. Maybe if I offered him
$10,000 in exchange for hunting, he might have become interested. Then
again,
if he had a $500,000 "crop" out in the trees growing, $10,000 for hunting
privileges wouldn't have probably interested him either.

I didn't waste his whole day, he was doing some work, and he kept working
while I was talking.

Now, maybe someone talked with him before I did and offended him in such a
way that he was sour to not me personally, but to "meteorite hunters" in
general. That could have been the case. And it was, I would have loved to
 
have
found that out.

But since he didn't say that, or give any reason, I just don't know.

Besides, I ended up hunting on one of his neighbors ground the next day
where we found the 1,673g specimen the day before the rains, so maybe it was
a
blessing that he said "No," and that he didn't tell me why, and that I
didn't
overcome his objections?

Then again, I might have changed his mind and I might have found 5 kilo
rock
on his ground instead.

Who knows? It is all "water under the bridge", or should I say "rocks
under
the mud" now.

Steve


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Received on Fri 03 Apr 2009 03:03:01 AM PDT