[meteorite-list] Speck Issues - Reply to this subject

From: Mark Grossman <markig_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 19:06:40 -0500
Message-ID: <000d01c87d8b$9f9e7fb0$6601a8c0_at_QED>

I am fairly new to the hobby but have purchased some historical specimens
from dealers who indicated that the pieces came from Museum collections. I
asked for the source sample numbers - sometimes I was supplied with this
information, sometimes just the date of the exchange or cut.

I was then able to contact the Museum and verify the parties involved and
the cut and exchange dates. Getting and verifying this information gives
one a little bit more confidence in purchasing these samples.

I have also asked dealers where they obtained their samples from, and some
say from other dealers without knowing any of the details, and I encountered
one situation where the piece was supposed to have come from a certain
dealer, and when I contacted that dealer, they had never had that specimen
before.

So, I guess it comes down to doing your homework as best you can. The nice
thing about researching the samples is that sometimes you find out some very
interesting things about the piece in question!

But yes, I've learned very quickly about being careful. To me, part of the
beauty of the hobby is knowing as much about the provenance of the sample as
you can.

Mark Grossman


----- Original Message -----
From: <MeteorHntr at aol.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Speck Issues - Reply to this subject


> Hello Walter, Frank, Mike and All,
>
> I agree, there is a potential problem with fraud.
>
> I would say, that a lack of ability to confirm certain meteorites as being
> what they are, is one of the factors that is keeping the hobby from
exploding
> (even more so) in popularity.
>
> Of course on the rare items, if they are large enough, anyone can go
through
> the trouble to get their own third party testing done if they really want
> to. The Ordinary Chondrite Hammer stones are a bit different, no matter
what
> the size, but especially with the smaller ones.
>
> I think there is room for extra value to be added to certain hammers (or
> other historical OCs) if the seller(s) will go through the extra effort to
> document what they have is from where they say it is.
>
> Maybe this requires (microscopic?) photographic documentation, with
notary
> public documentation on the dealer's signature(s) for some? Who knows?
>
> If an unknown buyer knows that he or she can buy and then later resell a
> certain specimen, with the integrity of that specimen intact, then I
think more
> people will want to risk buying them, and that will only help their
values.
>
> We are still in the "Wild West" age of meteorite collecting. If a
collector
> is educated, and thus more self sufficient, it is still a great time to
jump
> in and build a great collection. As the hobby matures, some of these
things
> will be ironed out, and values will rise (and some may fall).
>
> I think Frank's observation about this is very valid from a collector's
> point of view. No doubt if a dealer has two part slices, (or two
crumbs) of
> equal quality, from a meteorite that hit a house, but one had the
specimen
> photographed on a signed ID COA card, and the other one didn't, and both
were put
> on Ebay, one would be sell for more than the other one would.
>
> If the dealer also had a notarized copy of the exchange agreement with a
> major museum, where the specimen came from, that would only help that much
more
> to add to the provenance and thus to the value.
>
> In this electronic age, making a 1 min video of the hammer hitting the
slice
> and the crumbs being immediately identified could be enough to satisfy
most
> people.
>
> Entrepreneurism is great. As needs arise, watch the solutions that will
> emerge. Frank has pointed out a valid need.
>
> The best is yet to come.
>
> Steve Arnold
> Arkansas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> In a message dated 3/3/2008 5:08:18 P.M. Central Standard Time,
> waltbranch at bellsouth.net writes:
> >Guys, there is no problem here.
>
> There is a potential problem. When a dealer buys say,
> a collection, who is to say that the seller has not
> substituted one specimen for another. For example,
> Claxton, in the size of a speck, looks like any other L6.
> A well intentioned, well meaning, completely honest dealer
> has to trust that the seller is being honest with them
> and of course, on down the line.
>
> -Walter Branch
> (going home now. I hear a chillie cheese dog (or dawg, as we say here)
> calling my name.)
>
>
>
>
> **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money &
> Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)
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Received on Mon 03 Mar 2008 07:06:40 PM PST