[meteorite-list] Ohio and Indiana gold, silver, and diamonds

From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 2008 14:54:24 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <154451.53805.qm_at_web36907.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Sterling, all -

One would hope that these professional geologists were sufficiently skilled not to misdate these deposits. We'll see...

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas

--- On Tue, 7/8/08, Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ohio and Indiana gold, silver, and diamonds
> To: epgrondine at yahoo.com, meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Tuesday, July 8, 2008, 5:37 PM
> Hi, EP, List,
>
> EP wrote:
> > I think the edge of the glacial maximum is
> > well known to be north, so they are left looking
> > for a transport mechanism.
>
> I will just quote from my Post of 07-03-08:
> The drainage basin of the Ohio river shows plentiful
> evidence of this. There are glacial deposits in Kentucky,
> which is further south than Ohio (in case they haven't
> looked south across the river from Cincinnati lately).
> http://books.google.com/books?id=8eFSK4o--M0C&pg=PA376&lpg=PA376&dq=southernmost+glacial+erratic+US&source=web&ots=2NcIEXv_S_&sig=IGLmBdjw-oyZJUteovXiSv-FagA&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=4&ct=result
> (* The Kentucky glacial deposits are from an earlier
> glaciation, not the Laurentide, but who knows when the
> diamonds were deposited?)
>
> In ruling out glacial transport of diamonds, it is
> necessary
> to rule out ALL glacial transport from Canada at any
> Pleistocene
> time unless you have an in situ datable deposit ready to
> read.
> The last glaciation was just that: the LAST one. There have
> been four major ones over the last two million years.
>
> It's all recent history.
>
> Speaking of recent history, let's talk about
> meltwater (they
> do). "Meltwater" means the Great Lakes. Before
> the glaciation,
> they were a nice big Rift Valley, like in Africa.
> Here's a dated
> graphic of the Great Lakes growth and the glaciers
> shrinkage
> history in relation to size of lakes and position of the
> Ice Cap:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Glacial_lakes.jpg
> and another with the retreat in detail (third map down
> page):
> http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/EarthSC202Notes/GLACgeog.HTM
>
> You'll notice the ice didn't just
> "vanish." It retreated. It
> took a long time doing it. The retreat is easily datable at
> thousands of sites along the retreat. You'll note
> there's no
> great, sudden flood, Noah, baby!
>
> There's another problem with this imaginary
> reconstruction
> of the end of the Ice Age. I pointed out in a previous Post
> that
> the Amazonian Rain Forest is NOT an ancient, primeval
> feature but a Post-Glacial Development. The modern Earth
> has many mighty continent-spanning features we think of as
> ancient and primeval but that are only more Glacial or
> Post-Glacial
> Developments, like the Sahara Desert and -- most important
> here -- the Mississippi River and the ENTIRE drainage
> system
> of the Americn Midwest.
>
> Before the Ice Age, ALL the rivers in the interior of
> the US,
> from the Rockies to the Apalachians and south to Kentucky
> and Missouri drained to the NORTH! They were short,
> meandering and sluggish because the downslope gradient
> was not great, but eventually most of them got to the
> Arctic Ocean. Tracing the ancient water courses headed
> north has been going on for a century; it's a great way
> to
> train grad students...
>
> There were meltwater channels coming out from under
> the glaciers and running south for a while, however the
> Ohio
> glacer retreated early (see the graphics in the URL's
> above).
> But from the north edge of Ohio to the Ohio River, it's
> all
> UPHILL.
>
> My experience? It's hard to persuade rivers to run
> uphill.
>
>
> Sterling K. Webb
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "E.P. Grondine"
> <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 08, 2008 1:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ohio and Indiana gold,
> silver, and diamonds
>
>
> Hello everyone -
>
> I did not cover "Hopewell" silver and gold trade
> in my book, as the items
> were rare and there are multiple small deposits throughout
> eastern North
> America to account for them.
>
> I have been driving through this area (Greenville to
> Cincinatti) on my way
> to and from powwow, and I don't know if what I have
> learned will be of any
> value, but here goes.
>
> What this team seems to have found is gold, sliver, and
> diamond deposits
> sourced from Canada, and dated ca 10,900 BCE. I think the
> edge of the
> glacial maximum is well known to be north, so they are left
> looking for a
> transport mechanism.
>
> Obviously they know nothing of the mechanics of hyper
> velocity impact - it
> is frustrating that Dr. Peiser and has taken the Cambridge
> Conference and
> his abilities in other directions, and the Holocene Impact
> Working Group
> does not seem to have found these folks yet.
>
> There are two main streams running north to south through
> the region. One is
> 7 mile Creek, the other the Whitewater River. There was
> extensive later
> occupation along the Whitewater, with major complexes near
> Richmond, Indiana
> from the archaic on. Sterling, that appears to be your melt
> channels. The
> timing the team seems to have, but the cause?...
>
> Among the Europeans at the time of conquest there were
> extensive rumors of
> Shawnee silver, source unknown. These rumors have
> fascinated local people
> for a long time. In the "Treaty" of Vinceennes,
> Benjamin Henry Harrison even
> reserved a piece of land on the Vermillion River off of the
> Wabash which he
> thought was the silver source.
>
> I had thought that the silver came from DeSoto's
> expedition, as they placed
> small silver crosses on the foreheads of
> "friendly" Natives to distinguish
> them from enemy peoples in battle. Perhaps these deposits
> may explain De
> Soto's routes and activities, but who knows? Much
> later, French traders
> brought in small crosses and other trinkets.
>
> In closing, in as much as the exploration of recent impact
> sites is a new
> field of science, could I ask you to keep your comments
> civil?
>
> E.P. Grondine
> Man and Impact in the Americas
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Tue 08 Jul 2008 05:54:24 PM PDT