[meteorite-list] Holocene start Extinction Level Event

From: Sterling K. Webb <sterling_k_webb_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2008 16:51:11 -0500
Message-ID: <06e601c8de20$1370d2e0$2346e146_at_ATARIENGINE>

Hi, EP, List,

EP wrote:
> First off, that's comet fragments, more than one, and their dust.

    Yes, that's the Napier-Clube-Baillie Theory, but these guys
are part of the Firestone & Company Camp and they believe in
one Big Whack over the Ice Cap, a whole other cup of disaster.

    Like you (I imagine), I like the Napier-Clube-Baillie variation
a lot better. But they don't.


EP wrote
> fur... insulating against both cold and heat

    Critters so massive, with a high ratio of body mass to surface
area, need to dump heat in warmer climates. However, Mastodons
had fur, short fur, only and no insulating wool, while the Woolly
Mammoth had both, as the name implies. However, the climate
was not hot; it's an Ice Age, remember.

    It is good to remember how much the world changes. One
encounters everywhere the universal notion that the Amazonian
Rain Forest is ancient, primeval, some sort of Jungle Eden from
the Dawn of Time. Pretentious bosh.

    And wrong. The Amazonian Rain Forest is a brand spanking
new Post-Glacial development. 12-14,000 years ago, those jungles
were not jungles. The Amazonian Rain Forest was the Amazonian
Grassy Plains, like the Pampas, a Sea of Grass with meandering
rivers (much smaller rivers than today) and scattered clumps of
trees, perfect Elephant country (Mastodons are elephants; the
Mammoths are not, quite different, though they don't look it).


EP wrote:
> How? By starvation. Same thing that killed the horses at the same
> time. Bison survived; they were hardy, and ate short tundra like grass.

    Let's straighten this out. There's 25,000 years of glaciation:
very cold. Then, it begins to warm up a few degrees for a few
thousand years. Then comes the Younger Dryas, a thousand
years during which things cool off again, but not all the way
back to glacial levels. Then, the warming resumes and the
Interglacial begins in earnest. The YD is a hiccup.

    That's the history. Now, the five species of horse and ALL
the other critters on the list were happy as clams during the
25,000 years of glaciation. It warms for a few thousand years,
then cools again, and the cold kills them?

    Gimme a break.

    Whatever grass could grow in glacial conditions was enough
for the horses to thrive. Whatever grass could grow in warmer
conditions, LIKE NOW, is enough for horses to thrive. Grass
is ubiquitous, and if its range shifts, well, horses travel well,
you know.

    Then, there's Musk Ox, who can graze contentedly on crap a
Bison wouldn't touch (and couldn't). The Musk Oxen munch
on moss and lichens and such while all around them Bison
keel over like victims of anorexia. The Death of the Grass
wouldn't phase them at all. Why didn't the Musk Ox survive?

    In deference to Mexico Doug's sensibilities, I will not call the
climatic theory of extinction anything crude and non-correct;
I will call it "grossly inadequate, not a product of careful thought,
and a collection of archaic prejudices."


EP wrote:
> How? By starvation...

    You could argue that these species are all large, require lots
of food and are vunerable to smaller shifts in climate than little
omnivorous species like... Pack Rats! Small burrowing rodents
are about the hardest critter in the universe to kill. Ever tried?
Then, you know what I mean.

    So, it comes as a big surprise that the Pleistocene Vole, the
ultimate omnivore and pack rat that thrived through the worst of
the Ice Age and the warmest of Interglacials (warmer than now)
for 800,000 years, suddenly and inexplicably went extinct only
9500 years ago!
http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/10/21_packrat.shtml

    Someone explain that, please... Hunted to extinction by Clovis
Man, perhaps?


Sterling K. Webb
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Friday, July 04, 2008 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Holocene start Extinction Level Event


Hi Sterling -

"Remind me again: how does a Comet in Canada kill a furry
mastodon in South America? Both Mammoths and Mastodons
are unique Ice Age critters, elephants with fur coats! But
notice that while there are Mammoths in Canada and Alaska
and Siberia (Brrr!), the Mastodons preferred Kentucky,
Missouri, and Lu-Ezi-Anna, not mention South America.
So, how does ONE climate change kill off TWO genera
with such different climatic tastes?"

First off, that's comet fragments, more than one, and their dust.

How? By starvation. Same thing that killed the horses at the same time.
Bison survived; they were hardy, and ate short tundra like grass.

Mammoth and mastodon fur is suspected to be insulating against both cold and
heat, like a camel's fur.

The big mystery is the mammoth survival on the northern islands. But then
birds are dinosaurs - I suppose it will be worked out in time.

It sure would be nice to get a date and impactor type for the Ilturalde
Crater.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas



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Received on Fri 04 Jul 2008 05:51:11 PM PDT