[meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale

From: Martin Altmann <altmann_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 18:02:13 +0100
Message-ID: <007a01c9588d$8d60e3a0$177f2a59_at_name86d88d87e2>

Hi Al & all,

well that is a minor problem. Letting aside, that any new fall is lacking
any cultural properties, as long as it doesn't slay a famous composer,
painter or author (poetry slam) and if we accept, that Canadians see
themselves as legitimate heirs of extraterrestrial ancestors,
when were meteorites put into the national cultural heritage list of Canada?
I'm not sure, read somewhere in 1977.
So only a few meteorites are afflicted. With all others it would be quite
difficult for the Canadians to present evidence in case, that they were
exported illegally.
And Canada is still a State of Law (Argentina pro forma too), so not the
accused has to prove his innocence, but the accuser has to evidence that he
is guilty.

But in general. Nobody is happy with that legal situation, that meteoritical
Ren & Stimpy Show, I guess, least of all the Canadians themselves.
And I really hope, that the new fall now will take the fears, the
aggressiveness in the debate and will lead to a more meaning- and fruitful
handling of meteorites in future there.

It might be the problem, that "the officials" can't see the difference
between meteorites and fossils, minerals, resources and artefacts, which
they want to protect.
A diamond, a dino is lying millions of years in the rocks, an artefact and
something like the crater with the irons rests for thousands of years there.
So there is no hurry, they can stay in the ground also for some generations
more and it's o.k. to plant the banner there and to say "preserved for
eternity, hands off".
Not so - a fresh meteorite fall. There it is the top priority to rescue the
stones from the harsh environment in the most prisitine condition. A single
rain fall, a frost can already gravely damage the material, each week of
searching without success let the isotope clock tick.
Flight dynamics, fragmentation, strewnfield... interesting points, but in
dubio pro meteoritem with a new fall. That was also the methodical mistake
with Tagish Lake, where the Canadian Geological Survey - one can't say it
else - destroyed valuable cultural heritage of Canada. But errors are made
for learning from them. Now the scientists are faster.

To recover new falls you need knowledge and you need manpower, the more
people are searching the better! Restrictive property laws and protectionism
do constrict the possibility of recovering new falls. Especially in
countries, where "the officials" don't have enough experience with
meteorites. See Africa, see Peru...

I can't understand why the authorities still ignore the very positive
experiences made with the cooperation of "official" and "private"
initiatives in the recovering and documentation of almost all European falls
of our decade?

My home fall, Neuschwanstein. The DLR gave to everyone, who wanted to hunt,
the exact data of the possible strewnfield, which they had precalculated.
Only because of this, the 3 stones could have been recovered.
They never would have been found and would be meanwhile destroyed under the
harsh alpine conditions, if the officials wouldn't have used the help of
private hunters and searchers.

Think back to Villalbeto. Only a fraction of the masses would be housed
nowadays in the Spanish museums and universities, if they would have tried
to hunt them by theit own.

No LaPice at all would exist, if not a private person did all the field work
in calculating a possible strewnfield, interviewing eyewitnesses, evaluating
observations, in cooperation with the "officials" and in hunting so long,
until the first stone was found.

Moss... would we have more than the stone which hit the tree.....

And so on.

Or please note the wonderful documentation and catalogue Buhl/Baermann made
about the Chergach fall in the so necessary timely manner.
We are all collectors and we know how disappointing and laborious it is even
with the falls of our times to research in the archives to find only here a
lousy photo, there a small newspaper article.
An university in Mali would not have been able to do a similar professional
work.

Look into Buhl's Santa Victoria documentation.

Now he tried to make the same with the Indian fall, but was gravely impeded
by the officials there to do so, an effect of that hysterical debate of the
recent years.

Another aspect is, what we don't have to forget, that to forbid by law the
owner of a stone to do with the stone what he likes to do,
is legally seen a very severe intrusion in his personal laws,
and certainly for a State of Law always the worst solution.

Side effect of the Canadian situation - maybe they wouldn't have priced it
now at 50$/g, if Canadian meteorites wouldn't be so expensive in general.
Why are they so expensive? Is their a higher demand on the domestic Canadian
market? Does the material own a higher intrinsic value because it felt in
Canada instead in USA? No. Canadian meteorites are so expensive, because
their availability is restricted. If the regulations would be as liberal as
in USA, Canadian meteorites wouldn't cost more than American meteorites.
So if the "officials" want to take advantage of their pre-emption to
purchase a meteorite and if they have to "heal" the severe restriction of
the personal laws of the owner in compensating him paying a fair market
value, they have to pay more than without that law.

That all was concerning now new falls.

Much worse are restrictive laws regarding finds,
whenever a searcher, finder, owner is not rewarded for his finds, either by
the state or by being allowed to market it by his own.

I gave the example Libya already.
In 5 years the hunters were active, 1084 meteorites were found.
In the following 7 years, when they stayed home, only 45 meteorites were
recovered.

Take Egypt. A desert country. It has less meteorites than small humid
Germany and is one of the few desert countries, which completely is taken
out from the great hot desert rush.

Australia - the better Canada -
A fine place to hunt.
Please set the 7 (seven) finds of the recent 10 years made in Australia
against the numerous desert finds the US-American amateur hunters made in
USA in this decade.

So my point is, to come to a more rational debate.

Protectionism was an attempt, that science and the nations keep and obtain
more meteorites.

All hard data demonstrate, that the effect was obverse.

The countries with restrictions dramatically suffered - much much less
meteorites were found and landed in the institutions as in the times where
no restrictions took place or in comparable countries without protectionism.

So obviously protectionism is improper for the intended goals
and brought opposite results.

And should be history now.

Amen
Martin




-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht-----
Von: meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-bounces at meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von al
mitterling
Gesendet: Sonntag, 7. Dezember 2008 13:29
An: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Cc: Michael Farmer
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale

Greetings List,

Interesting topics. Mike is right on about the Canadians. They don't play
games. The former curator of the Canadian Collection was scanning ebay
meteorite auctions for many years for Canadian Cultural Property including
meteorites. The only way I was able to figure this out was a friend offer me

some diamonds he had purchased to sell on ebay for him. They were Canadian.
I received an inquiry as to where I had obtained my diamonds from Canada
from the Canadian Mounted Police!!

I let David know they were wondering (I had no doubt what so ever that David

had purchased these legally). After David told the police they were
purchased from one of the largest diamond companies and families in Canada,
they backed way off but left a negative opinion in my mind that you can't
purchase Canadian items without having to justify resaling them later. We
later then found out about the meteorite snoop. It also fit in that he use
to visit Tucson and Denver. I thought to build up their collection, but also

to check for Canadian material.

All my best to all.

--AL Mitterling



----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Farmer" <meteoriteguy at yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>; <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale


>I highly doubt it will be in Tucson, if it is then it is illegal, and I
>would not touch it. India doesnt scare me much, but Canada sent people to
>Tokyo two years back to look for fossils. They don't play games.
> Michael Farmer

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Received on Sun 07 Dec 2008 12:02:13 PM PST