[meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale

From: Jason Utas <meteoritekid_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 08:02:29 -0800
Message-ID: <93aaac890812070802o77b7e335n3de3c8f6e456348e_at_mail.gmail.com>

Darryl,
Low-end numbers? Even Park Forest which was witnessed, caught on
numerous videos, and fell in a densely populated urban environment -
in what may well be a majority of cases, hitting man-made objects, was
selling for $30/g or so at the time of the fall - a price which has
stayed roughly the same, if it hasn't come down a few dollars per gram
since then.
How much Park Forest was recovered? According to this report, roughly 30kg.

http://www.psrd.hawaii.edu/Aug04/ParkForest.html

More of this fall has been recovered in the past week than from the
entire fall of Park Forest.
It hasn't hit anything interesting, as far as we know.
It's an ordinary chondrite - even Park Forest had some pretty
brecciation/melt. I've heard of nothing of the sort from this fall.
It was caught on video, granted, and that does make it special in one
way...why you think that should boost the value of it to twice the
value of the undoubtedly more interesting Park Forest, also caught on
video (and five or ten times the price of other comparable falls), I
honestly...I'm at a lack for words.

"Low-end numbers being bandied about?"

On the one hand, you seem to criticize the high price being asked by
these sellers, and on the other, you say the current market rates for
other falls are "low-end numbers?"

I don't understand. $5-10/g for these new falls is far overpriced, as
best I can tell. At least with Chergach and Bassikounou, suppliers
were contacting list-members directly and offering stones at $2/g
initially - less for larger stones.

You seem to be saying that's too cheap. Why? If the sellers are
content, and I don't think the buyers are complaining, well, I can't
see any reason for you to say such a thing. If both parties are
happy, I honestly don't see how you can say such a thing.

Look at the numbers from my last email. A mere $10/g would provide
the hunters each with $5,000, assuming they only came back with 250g
each.

It's classic marketing technique to tell potential buyers that they
got precious little out of the fall, as they said they did.
If people think there's less, they'll want to buy more. There's a
reason they're not telling anyone how much they got, after all. I
wonder why...and I wonder if they ever will tell us how much they
found/were allowed to keep.... After all, unless they're just using
that as a marketing ploy, they really have no reason not to tell us.

Jason

On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 7:38 AM, Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:
>
>
> Folks,
>
> If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times: meteorites as a
> collectible do not attract more serious collectors because there are too
> many aberrations of valuation--such that the aberrations have become the
> norm. Several serious collectors who have been intrigued with meteorites
> have shared with me that they've opted not to climb in because of their
> belief in an "immature" and "unsophisticated" marketplace. Their words.
>
> In my humble opinion, the quality of the fireball video associated with the
> Canadian event makes it worth far more than the low-end numbers being
> bandied about.
>
> Everything else being the same, no witnessed fall should ever sell for a
> couple of bucks a gram, and we should all strive to make certain this
> doesn't occur.
>
> All best / d
>
>
> =====================
>
>
> On Dec 7, 2008, at 3:34 AM, Jason Utas wrote:
>
>> Hello Jeff, All,
>>
>> The comparison to Carancas was provided as a contrast simply because
>> it is such an unusual and different meteorite, and yet the asking
>> price for these new Canadian stones is roughly what Carancas is going
>> for right now. It's a large, ordinary, equilibrated chondrite fall,
>> the likes of which we see almost once a year with some regularity
>> (e.g. Thuathe, Amgala, Park Forest, Kilabo, Bensour, Chergach,
>> Bassikounou, Berduc, etc.).
>>
>> And the asking price is more than Park Forest, which was a spectacular
>> urban fall, and of which less material was found. The asking price
>> for Park Forest currently runs between $20-30/g, from what I can find.
>> A dealer or two have it listed at $40/g, but...not average. The
>> price at the time was...$20-30/g. It started high, and, because of
>> great demand for the urban fall, it stayed high.
>>
>> All of the other falls are ~$1.20/g (see the beautifully fresh 1.7kg
>> Chergach that just passed on ebay, from ET, as well as a brace of
>> stones I personally bought in the 120g range from an American dealer)
>> to the asking price of $5-10/g for pieces of the other falls (see ebay
>> - meteoritica, Hupe - both have Chergach currently listed on ebay, and
>> there's quite a bit of Bensour around if you want to compare that),
>> not that they sell quickly at those prices. After all, if you look at
>> what's listed, well, those are the pieces that have yet to sell.
>>
>> The only comparable meteorite I can find is the Argentinean fall of
>> Berduc, which, though I can't name any names (it was a while ago), was
>> listed between $10 and $30/g. Restricted export, few suppliers, fresh
>> fall, etc.
>>
>> The initial determining of the asking price of a fall is essentially
>> arbitrary The hunters could set it at $5/g or $10/g if they only
>> wanted to cover personal costs (and make a little on the side). Or
>> they could try to set it at $1000/g to make a profit. The only thing
>> keeping them from charging that much is the knowledge that, at some
>> point, they wouldn't turn a profit because their asking price would be
>> too high for anyone to buy.
>> A dealer looking to turn as high a profit as possible would ask as
>> high a price as he could, while still selling all of his material.
>>
>> Why wouldn't they? Do you really feel indignant enough at the
>> dealers' asking five or ten times the price for comparable falls to
>> not buy a stone from them? Personally, I do, and I won't. I think
>> they're taking advantage of us folks who love them, but who have jobs
>> and obligations - people who love them enough that we would go on such
>> trips that we could, but who can't because of our responsibilities.
>>
>> But let's have some fun.
>>
>> Lets assume these fellows come back with a mere 500g. Just over a
>> pound of space, between the two of them.
>> And let's assume a high trip/cost estimate:
>> Given that next-day flights to Edmonton from where I live were ~$130,
>> and let's say they both stay there for a week at $80/night + food, a
>> car....it works out to about a thousand dollars for the trip, each.
>> $2,000 combined cost.
>>
>> If that's right, they would break even at $4/g. Each $1/g over $4/g
>> would give them $500.
>> If they're asking $50/g, they would make...$46x500.
>>
>> That's a profit of $23,000.
>>
>> And if my estimate was off and they each flew first-class, rented
>> Hummers, and spent $50/day on food, they'll only make $20,000 off of
>> 500g.
>>
>> ...Do you think they got more than a pound of material from the trip?
>> I would assume so.
>> A kilogram between the two of them would give them almost $50,000.
>> Not bad for a quick flight up to Edmonton and a week's fun.
>>
>> I'll wait for the thaw. Anyone else who has spring break free (dates
>> available), drop me a line and I'll see what kind of a trip we can
>> arrange. What I can promise is that if I do find enough on that trip
>> to warrant selling some, I'll have it at a reasonable price.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Jason
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Jeff Kuyken <info at meteorites.com.au>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Steve and Mike both touched on an interesting point here that I was
>>> pondering myself the last couple of days. The material found now will be
>>> different to the material found weeks, months and years down the track. I
>>> didn't realise how much a fall can vary until "Amgala" (Oum Dreyga). I
>>> purchased a 15g individual from Mike Farmer from his very first batch of
>>> about 1kg. I believe these were about the first stones picked up. I paid
>>> about $10/g and it was worth every cent. I have several other Oum Dreyga
>>> specimens from numerous sources and NONE come even close to the first 15g
>>> which looks like soot would rub off on your hands. In fact no other
>>> recent
>>> fall I have appears as fresh as this stone. Two other recent falls that
>>> come
>>> immediately to mind with vast differences in weathering are Park Forest
>>> and
>>> Moss.
>>>
>>> So maybe $50/g is high but maybe it's also not so bad considering what
>>> the
>>> other stones 'might' be like down the track. You can also speculate all
>>> you
>>> like but there are so many factors which will dictate the price of a
>>> fall.
>>> And I don't think you can really compare one with another. Comparing this
>>> Canadian fall with Carancas is probably not a good measure at all. They
>>> are
>>> two totally different falls with two totally different stories.
>>>
>>> The most important thing to remember about the 'value' of a meteorite (or
>>> anything for that matter) is that it is only worth what someone is
>>> willing
>>> to pay.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: <MeteorHntr at aol.com>
>>> To: <star_wars_collector at yahoo.com>;
>>> <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
>>> Sent: Saturday, December 06, 2008 5:34 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ad New Canadian Meteorite for sale
>>>
>>>
>>>> Greg and All,
>>>>
>>>> I tend to agree that the price MIGHT drop to $10/g, especially if there
>>>> is a
>>>> high degree of rusting on the specimens found later next year.
>>>>
>>>> However, there is a chance the Canadians might offer to buy all or most
>>>> of
>>>> the ones already found.
>>>>
>>>> If the land owners can get a tax credit on $50/g to donate them,
>>>> everyone
>>>> up
>>>> there might be happy to donate them, and at a 50% tax rate, that is the
>>>> same
>>>> as getting $25/g cash in hand to the overtaxed Canadians.
>>>>
>>>> It sounds like most of the land owners are very wealthy, so money may
>>>> not
>>>> mean anything to them. They might donate them all and not even care
>>>> about a
>>>> tax break or cash values at all.
>>>>
>>>> If only a few kilos make it to the market place, then we could see the
>>>> value
>>>> be higher than $10/g.
>>>>
>>>> If we seen hundreds of rusty kilos coming onto the market, then we
>>>> could
>>>> see
>>>> the prices end up way below $10/g.
>>>>
>>>> In any case, we probably will have to wait for the 6 months to pass to
>>>> see
>>>> what is not purchased by the Canadian Government.
>>>>
>>>> One thing is sure, if ALL the masses were put on a restricted Canadian
>>>> only
>>>> collector market, a few hundred kilos would probably sell for $0.10 a
>>>> gram or
>>>> even less.
>>>>
>>>> A smart thing might be to buy one specimen from Sonny and McCartney NOW
>>>> at
>>>> $50/g and then buy more later at $10/g and if the price goes down to
>>>> under
>>>> $1/g then buy so much more that you will have cost averaged your first
>>>> purchase
>>>> at $50/g down to a reasonable level.
>>>>
>>>> Of course, if you are one of those people that get a rush at owning the
>>>> newest most famous meteorite that everyone is talking about around the
>>>> water
>>>> cooler, then how can you put a value on that???
>>>>
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> And also, realize that if you do buy a meteorite from Sonny and
>>>> McCartney
>>>> now, you are investing into field recovery. I seriously doubt they
>>>> will
>>>> make a
>>>> profit on this trip even if they sold what little they found at $100/g,
>>>> but
>>>> if they can come close to breaking even, maybe next time they will
>>>> again
>>>> be
>>>> able to afford to get on the scene early and find more.
>>>>
>>>> And at the very least, we should congratulate them on getting to the
>>>> scene
>>>> and making an effort.
>>>>
>>>> Good job guys, and congratulations!
>>>>
>>>> Steve Arnold #1
>>>> www.SteveArnoldMeteorites.com
>>>>
>>>> **************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and
>>>> favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)
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>>>>
>>>
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Received on Sun 07 Dec 2008 11:02:29 AM PST