[meteorite-list] another new argentina fall??

From: mexicodoug at aim.com <mexicodoug_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 03:29:35 -0400
Message-ID: <8CA70063DCE82E1-1394-29A4_at_webmail-dd08.sysops.aol.com>

I wrote:

"So far there are two institutions who want to analyze the meteorite. I
think they are:
* Centro Austral de Investigaciones Cient?ficas, CONICET, Argentina
* Another University group in Spain "

Just to confirm, that is the correct Argentine group, and the Spanish
hoping to convince the Astronomical Association to send samples for
analysis is:

Instituto de Ciencias del Espacio (CSIC), Barcelona, Spain

I mentioned that a "famous" Uruguayan astronomer ad Solar System
dynamicist, Gonzalo Tancredi, [in quotes because he is conqueror of the
King of the underworld himself, Pluto - no disrespect intended, but I
am ignorant of his positive contributions to real science, which I
would need to know to remove the quotes], now wants to go on an
expedition and probably wants material for scientific purposes. He
pasionately led the successful charge withn the IAU to kick Pluto out
of the Planet Club.

I should have added that some of his motivation is because he is
working on some "theory" that this new April 6 fall is part of a
recurring meteorite shower, and he references a 1959 Czech fall
(Obviously the H5 Pribram, 7 April 1959 for which an orbit was
determined) and a -18 magnitude 2002 Bavarian-Austrian bolide from 6
April 2002 (Type Classified as H5 at the time, though no specimens had
been recovered, by some astronomers based on a similarity of the bolide
to Pribram, with the argument that the orbit was determined precisely
also and was so similar to Pribram)...but then:

Whether you want to take this seriously or think statistics (remember
the Birthday Problem?) would argue otherwise, this is actually the
theory of Halliday, et. al. and others who have investigated the idea,
for example:
NEUSCHWANSTEIN AND PRIBRAM: SOLITAIRE METEORITES OR MEMBERS OF A STREAM?
Geophysical Research Abstracts, Vol. 5, 11512, 2003
(where D. Heinlein was the third author)
[the conclusion of the latter was that Neuschwanstein, the Bavarian
(German) meteorite had a sufficiently indistinguishable orbit so that
it could be considered the same a member of the same meteoroid stream.
Sadly for proponents, Neuschwanstein was classified as an EL6 in the
Meteoritical Bulletin, after being recovered finally, so luckily the
idea to bolide it as an H5, too ;), lost the earth under it. The idea
that there is an April 6-7 meteoroid stream, though, is apparently
alive and kicking.]

Also:
* the Berduc meteorite looks like a relatively friable chondrite with a
gray matrix.
* the Berduc meteorite witnesses thought it was coming from the
Southwest (~225 degrees Azimuth) and heading towards the Northeast (~45
degrees azimuth)with Berduc being nearly the furthest NE along this
line.
* Other astronomers mention that Tancredi called Neuschwanstein
Austrian. While we might frown upon this, in his defense, the view was
quite
  impressive from Austria where observations were taken, as it turns
out, just like Berduc from Uruguay...

Best wishes and great Health,
Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: mexicodoug at aim.com
To: wahlperry at aol.com; meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 3:53 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] another new argentina fall??


Hi Sonny, Not that much more news other than I already posted unless
this is of help. It is a very large fall though only small fragments
are being reported:?
?
* These are the approximate coordinates of the 700 gram piece reported
by the Agricultural Engineer Gabriela from the Nursury. Sorry if they
are off by a couple of meters:?
?
31 Degrees 54'38.68" South?
58 Degrees 19'50.76" West?
?
* It is clear that hundreds (more like many thousands) of pieces fell
in the surrounding population of Berduc in the Entre Rios municipality.
?Several in Berduc (hundreds of meters from the Nursury where the
"largest" piece was found) complained of their roofs being pelted with
a hail of tiny black rocks.?
?
* One residence in Berduc spoke about their experience (her name was
withheld by the report), I'll paraphrase the woman who had about 25
grams of fragments with fusion crust, for you:?
?
"We felt an illumination and it surprised us, but, we didn't pay that
much attention, it might have been a car to it and kept watching
television.?
?
But the thing is, a little while later, we felt the piece [hit]. I
would say um, one... right away...I'd say about five minutes just after
the illumination; we looked out the windows and we didn't see any
clouds, no lights, no vehicles, nothing.?
?
Like who would throw rocks? We went outside and turned on the outside
light. Well, we didn't want to go outside, we stayed inside, one always
avoids doing that at night. We thought was was that? but we stayed
inside well, kept watching television and we were there along while.
Then we left it like that, we didn't hear anything else, we did nothing
but we were left with that thought- what could that have been??
?
Well today in the morning right when we got up, the first thing we did
was go see was that was that rock, the dog was on his leash, and we
said, what?, the dog we took to look, then I told my grandson, so go up
on the roof, something happened on the roof last night, maybe a rock,
and thats how it went, he climbed up on the roof, and he found these,
little pieces of this. Later, he began to look like he's looking now to
see if there were more pieces that were bigger, since for us it was a
larger piece that (shook?) the window. This [rock with the burnt rind]
is something new for us. We're going to keep looking. It was about
10:00PM, I don't know the exact time, maybe five minutes to ten [at
night 6 April 2008].?
?
* The Astronomical Association of Entre Rios started the search within
two hours after the fall led by 29-year old Mario Peter Coordinato of
the Astronomical Association who did an first rate and outstanding job
with three co-members, without sleeping or even eating, interviewing,
etc., tracking down the fall in the first hours through the night
aftwer the bolide report at 10:03PM. He did such a good job at
documentation!!!!!!!!!!?
?
* The Astronomical Association led by president Luis Trumper in an
excellent documentary gave a long, interesting and entertaining
presentation on the importance of meteorites in the study of the Solar
System. The documentary was of equal or better (!) quality than any I
have seen anywhere in the world. He should be heartily congratulated.
He said says after the initial two day search, that they don't have
resources to spearhead the search for more, but of course they'll be
back to look for more. He affirmed that the job is now in the hands of
the National Guard/Border Poilce force and other official government
police organizations.?
?
* The fall is very close to the border [12 kilometers from the above
coordinates, to be exact] and was observed in Uruguay, also. Gonzalo
Tancredi, the IAU member from the University of the Republic of Uruguay
who led the dumping of Pluto's Planetary by arguing it had been wrongly
classified for the past 75 years, intends to go on a expedition to look
for some pieces, too.?
?
* The event created quite a spectacle in the media including a news
helicopter, but strangely not many more pieces than the original 5 are
being reported (though it is obvious many are in the hands of the
locals). It has been a great event orchestrated by the Astronomical
Association in coordination with locals, local government officials,
the National/Border Guard and federal police forces and media throught
the region and capital.?
?
* No photos of the 4-5 second 10:03PM bolide creating the meteorites
have been confirmed in the first week or so, so far.?
?
* It is a stony meteorite, somewhat fragile, fragmenting easily,
possibly with shock veins, that moderately attracts a regular magnet.?
?
So far there are two institutions who want to analyze the meteorite. I
think they are:?
* Centro Austral de Investigaciones Cient?ficas, CONICET, Argentina?
* Another University group in Spain?
?
oes this help ;)?
Best wishes and Great Health,?
Doug?
?
?
?
-----Original Message-----?
From: wahlperry at aol.com?
To: meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com?
Sent: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:13 am?
Subject: [meteorite-list] another new argentina fall???
?
Hi All,??
??
Any more news on the new fall???
??
Sonny??
??
www.nevadameteorites.com??
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Received on Sat 19 Apr 2008 03:29:35 AM PDT