[meteorite-list] Stolen meteorite for sale?

From: E.P. Grondine <epgrondine_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 16:29:23 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <800056.7041.qm_at_web36914.mail.mud.yahoo.com>

Hi Darryl, list, all -

Darryl, please excuse the brusqueness of my earlier
reply. There was something in your note which caught
my irritation.

I think it is appropriate for me to share with you now
what little I know of what shall be called in the rest
of this note "The Principle of Bad Luck", despite my
own limited knowledge of it.

I can not remember if I learned of "The Principle of
Bad Luck" while reading through materials while
working on "Man and Impact in the Americas"; I
certainly learned of it latter from those who I now
consult as guides in these matters.

The first time that I verified "The Principle of Bad
Luck" was in Olmstead, Illinois, near to the junction
of the Ohio River and Mississippi River. While having
lunch in the local general store, a heavy equipment
operator relayed to me that he had bull-dozed down a
mound at a farmer's request. "My God, that's bad
luck", I noted, and then spent the next 20 minutes
listening to his tale of woe. At the end of his
recitation he affirmed that he would never do anything
like that again, but instead would simply walk off the
job. He then bought a signed copy of my book "Man and
Impact in the Americas" from me.

Among the "arrowhead collectors" who have spoken with
me while I sold "Man and Impact in the Americas" at
public pow-wows, "The Principle of Bad Luck" was
universally held, and they would never even consider
violating a burial to satisfy their lusts for lithics.
I do not know whether their knowledge was gained from
experience or learned by them from others. Most would
not even hunt a village site, unless it were in danger
of being lost, but instead confined their passion to
the surrounding fields and already lost settlements.

Of course, whether these collectors' statements were
made from shame, or whether those who had violated
"The Principle of Bad Luck" were simply no longer
around to speak with me, I do not know.

Also, as all of this evidence is anecdotal, a more
"controlled" observation is necessary for a scientific
verification of "The Principle of Bad Luck". The Nazis
engaged in human experimentation; I don't know how you
feel about it, but it seems to me I've discharged my
obligation to warn you.

If you feel compelled to do so, join the dataset.

On the other hand, by the symmetrical "Principle of
Good Luck", if some wealthy individual were to buy the
Williamette piece and re-unite the child with its
mother, so to speak, they would bring very "good luck"
on themselves, as well as geta nice tax break.

Given that larger irons have hit the Earth, and may do
so again, killing large numbers of people, it seems to
me appropriate if small thin slices of Williamette are
held for scientific purposes.

These are my thoughts on Williamette. What has
concerned me for some time is Casa Grande.

While the removal of Casa Grande from its home in
Arizona to safe storage was appropriate in the 1890's,
as tourists then were hacking off piece of it for
souvenirs, I think it is now appropriate for the Casa
Grande meteorite be returned to the observatory at
Casa Grande.

I think that this return would simply involve a
transfer or loan within the federal government.
There is now a National Parks museum next to the
observatory's remains where the meteorite could safely
be held.

Not only would such a move respect the native peoples
of Arizona, it would respect all of the people living
in Arizona today. Additionally, such a move may
relieve the federal government of some "Bad Luck" -
and we could all use some more "Good Luck" from there.


E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas

--- Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:

>
>
> glad to see the scientific method still at work!!
>
> actually, come to think of it, yesterday i arrived
> at 5th/70th street
> just after a woman was tragically struck by a truck.
> and, get this,
> an hour or so ago, i happened upon a taxi around the
> corner from my
> office which was completely ablaze. maybe as you're
> the recipient of
> this email....
>
> eeeek.
>
>
> On Sep 20, 2007, at 3:03 PM, E.P. Grondine wrote:
>
> > Hi Darryl -
> >
> > I suppose my answers to your questions are we'll
> find
> > out.
> >
> > If you really feel compelled to do so go on ahead
> and
> > join the dataset.
> >
> > E.P.
> >
> > --- Darryl Pitt <darryl at dof3.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> this is offensive, and not just to me, but to
> native
> >> americans.
> >>
> >> how is it, exactly, that you're expert in how
> >> vengeful native
> >> american spirits will be---that is if they're
> >> vengeful at all?
> >>
> >> and might the measure of an honorable life
> mitigate
> >> the wrath you
> >> predict, or are you just making this into a nice
> >> little primitive fable?
> >>
> >> and just to be clear, trust me, if get suddenly
> >> drop, it's not
> >> because of a meteorite transaction; i've been
> >> pushing notions of good
> >> living for far too long.
> >>
> >> moreover, there exist countless objects in nature
> >> that have been
> >> venerated by previous cultures that we have no
> idea
> >> of---and that's a
> >> free pass?! is it tribe specific? just
> checking.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Depth of Field Management
> >> 1501 Broadway Suite 1304
> >> New York, New York 10036
> >> 212.302.9200
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sep 20, 2007, at 1:49 PM, E.P. Grondine wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Hi Paul (Litig8n-shark), all -
> >>>
> >>> It's funny: you're worrying about the courts,
> >>>
> >> while
> >>
> >>> oblivious to what has been observed to be
> >>>
> >> incidents of
> >>
> >>> horrendous bad luck following upon the
> desecration
> >>>
> >> of
> >>
> >>> native american religious artifacts. (I'm sorry,
> >>>
> >> but
> >>
> >>> for the time being I'll have to leave that
> >>>
> >> statement
> >>
> >>> without rigourous documentation.)
> >>>
> >>> While some may have previously bought or sold
> >>> Williamette while oblivous to its earlier
> >>>
> >> religious
> >>
> >>> use, if you now feel comfortable purchasing it
> at
> >>> auction, go on ahead. We need some data on mache
> >>> katet, and it should be easy enough to follow
> the
> >>> fates of the auction's winners.
> >>>
> >>> E.P. Grondine
> >>> Man and Impact in the Americas
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --- LITIG8NSHARK at aol.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Good evening, Folks,
> >>>>
> >>>> I've not kept up with this thread,
> unfortunately.
> >>>> However, this post makes
> >>>> me think that what I am looking at is the
> >>>> possibility of another demand for
> >>>> "reparations"...25.....50, or 100, or more
> years
> >>>> later. When will it end? For
> >>>> what "special" group, shall there be an
> unlimited
> >>>> statute of limitations?
> >>>> Shall causes-of-action be allowed to pass down
> >>>> through families, or "special"
> >>>> groups--as a result of nothing more than
> >>>> bloodline--in perpetuity? I sincerely
> >>>> hope not.
> >>>>
> >>>> Are there any among us who can't remotely align
> >>>>
> >> with
> >>
> >>>> a "special" group who
> >>>> has been discriminated against, under color of
> >>>> governmental authority, in the
> >>>> past few hundred years? In my opinion, no
> group
> >>>> should be entitled to multiple
> >>>> bites at the apple, over decades.
> >>>>
> >>>> Might your position on this issue change if
> >>>> suddenly, your country's laws
> >>>> changed, and all of a sudden you found your
> >>>> meteorite collection, or part
> >>>> thereof, being subject to confiscation? Just a
> >>>> thought.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best Regards,
> >>>>
> >>>> Paul Martyn
> >>>> Savannah, Georgia
> >>>>
> >>>> In a message dated 9/19/2007 8:53:02 PM Eastern
> >>>> Daylight Time,
> >>>> rob at nakhladogmeteorites.com writes:
> >>>> That is quite a condensed version of a very
> >>>> interesting story.
> >>>>
> >>>> Good place to start and follow the references.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willamette_Meteorite
> >>>>
> >>>> Rob Wesel
> >>>> http://www.nakhladogmeteorites.com
> >>>> ------------------
> >>>> We are the music makers...
> >>>> and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> >>>> Willy Wonka, 1971
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "E.P. Grondine" <epgrondine at yahoo.com>
> >>>> To: <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 8:58 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Stolen meteorite
> >>>>
> >> for
> >>
> >>>> sale?
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Pete, all -
> >>>>>
> >>>>> If I remember correctly, the meteorite was
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> considered
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> a sacred relic by the local people, but the
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> European
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> settlers hacked off pieces, and then the bulk
> of
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>> it
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> was hauled off by wagon and sold.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ************************************** See
> what's
> >>>> new at http://www.aol.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
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> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >
>
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> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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Received on Thu 20 Sep 2007 07:29:23 PM PDT