[meteorite-list] AL HAGGOUNIA 001 ("NOT" AUBRITE)

From: Philippe Thomas <thomasmeteorites_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 10:21:19 +0100 (CET)
Message-ID: <19845051.62661196328079555.JavaMail.www_at_wwinf2602>

Dear Greg and all,

It is not usual for me to participate in the debates because by experience often these remain sterile and my level of English does not allow me to make me understood completely.

Here is that I have to say as comment of this meteorite:

First, all the Moroccan having a relationship with the business of meteorites know Al Haggounia's strewnfield (Western Sahara not Algeria) for a long time before that you and I let us be
dealers of meteorites. At this time, nobody was certain that he can involve a meteorite, the knowledge of Moroccan were not the one from now and it is necessary to say that first sight
has it is not evident to recognize a meteorite in this material. The first analyzed pieces and declared numbers were classified EL6, E6 and the first one which has been classified as an
aubrite was the NWA 2736.

This classification launched a new rush on Al Haggounia, and hundreds of kilos of this material met itself has Erfoud.

In April, 2006, when I met my Moroccan partner in Erfoud, he showed me several hundreds of kilos of this material in bags which had just arrived from Western Sahara. In these hundreds
of kilos, I chose carefully several kilos of all the representative parts of this meteorite to give them later to Albert Jambon. As well as Fred Beroud, Ali Hmani and Ait Ouzrou, who agreed
to make a common declaration rather than multiply the numbers NWA, supplied a big quantity of material to Albert Jambon.

I think that Albert Jambon is the most qualified person to describe this meteorite. Before subjecting his declaration he went up an expedition to go on the spot in association with the
other French and Moroccan scientists. The strewnfield as described by Albert Jambon and others scientists who participated in the expedition is a classic strewnfield, an ellipse 40 km
long with the also classic distribution of the big and small pieces. On the strewnfield the geologists make the dating of the ground and all the analyses to describe the strewnfield. They
found themselves several pieces of this meteorite. In Laayoune, Albert Jambon also saw several hundreds of kilos of this meteorite with Moroccan involved in the search on the
strewnfield. What gives approximately 3 tons for this meteorite if we add the various pairings.

There is no doubt, and I believe that everybody agrees, that all this material NWA xxxx and Al Haggounia 001 with different results of analysis is the same. It was classified EL6, E6,
aubrite, EL6 / 7, EL3... Three different laboratories have classified this meteorite as an aubrite.
For the owners of a part of this meteorite which supplied the typical sample has a scientist so that he made the analysis, there is no reason for not believing the scientist in question
whom he has to trust in the quality of his work it is a question of respect.

In this case, in which we are certain that it is about the same meteorite, the various classifications raise naturally a problem. The important weathering of this meteorite explains maybe
the difficulty of the determination.

To end, I think that no dealer can grant himself the right to say such analysis is the good and such the other one is false and there is no reason to say that the good analysis is EL3.

Best wishes,
Philippe

http://www.meteoritica.com/

Dear Frederic, Matteo and List Members,

"Al Haggounia 001"(NWA 4420), NWA 2828 and the other Fossil EL3's are NOT, I repeat, NOT aubrites. I wish they were, I have many, many kilos of NWA 2828. At first when just the type
sample was tested, it came back as an aubrite, no chondrules were found. After cutting more of the NWA 2828 material I had, I began to find these funny round things and I thought, "Oh
no, these are chondrules, this can not be an aubrite". I then sent more sample material in to have tested and sure enough, they WERE chondrules. Unfortunately I had not cut the material
for sale until the classification and abstract were approved. After the chondrules were found and confirmed by several US scientists, a revised classification and abstract were submitted.
The abstract was approved, see here: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006AGUFM.P51E1247K but the NWA 2828 classification was not changed by the Meteoritical Society in the
bulletin (not sure why this is, any one out there who can address this?).

The classifying scientist who studied NWA 4420 "Al Haggounia", Dr. Jambon, refused scientific data supporting the EL3 classification from the US scientists and classified the sample he
had as an aubrite. This material IS THE SAME AS NWA 2828, the now infamous EL3 Fossil (Paleo) meteorite! I do not know if "Al Haggnounia" is trying to be wished into being an aubrite,
but IT IS NOT!!! Those who have sent Dr. Jambon sample material need to send him and other scientists more samples that show the true makeup of this meteorite. In other words, send
samples with those funny round things so the classification can be made correctly. When new data and evidence is presented, it is up to the dealers AND the scientists to do the right
thing.

To error is OK as long as a correction is made as in the case of NWA 2828, hence the title of the revised abstract, "EL3 Chondrite (not Aubrite) Northwest Africa 2828: An Unusual Paleo-
meteorite Occurring as Cobbles in a Terrestrial Conglomerate". See here: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2006AGUFM.P51E1247K

I wish NWA 2828 was an aubrite, but an EL3 Fossil meteorite is pretty cool too. Anyone want an excellent deal on some nice and clean NWA 2828 stones?

Respectfully,
Greg

====================
Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
gmhupe at htn.net
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163
====================
Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault



----- Original Message ----- From: "meteoriteshow" <meteoriteshow at free.fr>
To: "Meteorite List Meteoritecentral" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 9:54 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] AD - AL HAGGOUNIA 001 (AUBRITE)


Dear Listees,

Sorry, the links where cut in my previous post.
So please just find them (I hope this time uncut) hereunder:

1/ Al Haggounia 001 / Meteoritical Society:
http://tin.er.usgs.gov/meteor/metbull.php?sfor=names&categ=Aubrites&mblist=92

2/ Al Haggounia 001 for sale on Meteoriteshow web site:
http://meteoriteshow.free.fr/meteoriteshow%20fra/pages%20navigation/pieces_en_vente-fra.htm#NWA4420



kind regards,

Frederic Beroud
IMCA #2491
www.meteoriteshow.com

______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list


______________________________________________
http://www.meteoritecentral.com
Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com
http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Orange vous informe que cet e-mail a ete controle par l'anti-virus mail. Aucun virus connu a ce jour par nos services n'a ete detecte.
Received on Thu 29 Nov 2007 04:21:19 AM PST