[meteorite-list] Saturn's Rings May be Old Timers

From: mexicodoug <mexicodoug_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:09:39 -0600
Message-ID: <001901c84322$bd6b1600$4001a8c0_at_MICASA>

Larry wrote:
"something like 30 years ago. It would be nice if people gave credit where
credit was due."

Hi Larry, List,

I agree with your complaint that it is a more satisfying existence to give
credit when expressing ideas, to those upon whose shoulders one is
peering from. The press and 'discussion group' media are better at PR
and innocent BS than they are at doing science and annotated research...

This theory is much older than our generations; the elements are all covered
in James Clerk Maxwell's treatise on the subject. I guess when all the
"Fluffy and Mittens" are distilled from the new age of "I discovered this
because I was able to explain it to myself (and include everyday unrelated
analogies like cats named Fluffy when explaining it to you)", the new
development here is the suggestion that some of the rocks orbiting in
Saturn's rings look clumpy and rubbly (not solid-have spaces) enough from
close range spectral work.

Thus - the investigators contribution is the claim of finally observing
'direct'
evidence of the long-ago proposed thought that collisions are happening
(A) to contribute to ring formation and keeping in mind "destruction" of
the
rings =accretion into moonlets(B) too. Here's the gist for the record:

Excerpted from Maxwell
(first contemplated 1847 when he was 16 with Tait,
rigorously submitted 1857, published 1859):

"We conclude, therefore, that the rings must consist of disconnected
particles; these may be either solid or liquid, but they must be
independent. The entire system of rings must therefore consist either of a
series of many concentric rings, each moving with its own velocity, and
having its own systems of waves, or else of a confused multitude of
revolving particles, not arranged in rings, and CONTINUALLY COMING INTO
COLLISION [A] with each other...

...The final result, therefore, of the mechanical theory is, that the only
system of rings which can exist is one composed of an indefinite number of
unconnected particles, revolving round the planet with different velocities
according to their respective distances. These particles may be arranged in
series of narrow rings, or they may move through each other irregularly. In
the first case, THE DESTRUCTION [B] WILL BE VERY SLOW...

... it will be worth while to investigate more carefully whether Saturn's
Rings are permanent or transitionary elements of the Solar System, and
whether in that part of the heavens we see celestial immutability, or
terrestrial corruption and generation, and the old order giving place to new
before our own eyes. "

ref:
On the Stability of the Motion of Saturn's Rings (1859)
On theories of the constitution of Saturn's Rings. (1862)

Commentary from Maxwell (1857):
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Biographies/Maxwell.html
"I have effected several breaches in the solid ring, and now am splash into
the fluid one, amid a clash of symbols truly astounding. When I reappear it
will be in the dusky ring, which is something like the siege of Sebastopol
conducted from a forest of guns 100 miles one way, and 30,000 miles the
other, and the shot never to stop, but go spinning away round a circle,
radius 170,000 miles..."

Best wishes, and Life, Alba,
Doug

----- Original Message -----
From: <lebofsky at lpl.arizona.edu>
To: "Ron Baalke" <baalke at zagami.jpl.nasa.gov>
Cc: "Meteorite Mailing List" <meteorite-list at meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 8:28 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Saturn's Rings May be Old Timers


> Hi All:
>
> This idea is not new. Don Davis et al. published a similar model more than
> 20 years ago. It is also interesting how similar the artist concept of the
> rings in the article is to one done by Bill Hartmann something like 30
> years ago. It would be nice if people gave credit where credit was due.
>
> Larry
>
> On Wed, December 19, 2007 2:41 pm, Ron Baalke wrote:
>>
>
>> http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.cfm?release=2007-149
>>
>>
>> Saturn's Rings May be Old Timers
>> Jet Propulsion Laboratory
>> December 12, 2007
>>
>>
>> SAN FRANCISCO, Calif. - New observations by NASA's Cassini spacecraft
>> indicate the rings of Saturn, once thought to have formed during the age
>> of
>> the dinosaurs, instead may have been created roughly 4.5 billion years
>> ago, when the solar system was still under construction.
Received on Thu 20 Dec 2007 11:09:39 AM PST