[meteorite-list] The so-called "impactite bed"

From: drtanuki <drtanuki_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:58:27 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <700807.51628.qm_at_web53206.mail.re2.yahoo.com>

Paul and List,

>
>
I DID NOT WRITE THIS BELOW and I DO NOT AGREE WITH HIS
INTRPETAIONS! It was written by EPG:
 
> ?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1GCgOI3B1o
Thee black impactite layer is pretty amazing ?EI
never expected it to be that dense or clearly
obvious to the naked eye - my guess is that it
extends throughout other sandstone formation in the
region
 
Dirk Ross:
MY reponse is that these are quite common features in
the Plains and Southwest and represent bogs or
seasonal ponds that animals used for watering and
bathing. There is nothing related to impact connected
with these layers; unless they magicians can suddenly
pull out what they are claiming that they have found.
I have seen no evidence of micro-diamonds, fullerenes,
glass shards or spherules of iron glass.

An certainly Ed is no expert as he identified the
overlying layer as a sandstone.

I am still waiting on the Y-D group to produce the
facts to back their claims! I suspect they have none
or that they are misinterpretating the facts.

  The mega-fauna did NOT just suddenly "die-out"! We
found remains at several Cody Complex sites of Mega
Fauna in NE Colorado and elsewhere several thousand
years after the "great dying".

Best Regards, Dirk...Tokyo


--- Paul <bristolia at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Mr. Grondine wrote:
>
>
>
> ?Yes. Here you go:
>
>
>
>
http://www.nsf.gov/discoveries/disc_summ.jsp?cntn_id=109768&org=NSF&from=news
>
>
>
> drtanuki <drtanuki at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> ?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1GCgOI3B1o
>
>
>
> The black impactite layer is pretty amazing ?EI
>
> never expected it to be that dense or clearly
>
> obvious to the naked eye - my guess is that it
>
> extends throughout other sandstone formations
>
> in the region ??
>
>
>
> What is seen there is ***not*** a layer of
> impactite. The ?black
> mat,?Eas archaeologist call this layer, is
> organic-rich sediment,
> which was deposited in a low-energy cienega (stream
> or creek
> bog) environment. "Black mats" have been known to
> archaeologists
> for decades. What these black mats represent, along
> with wet-
> meadow soils and pond deposits that include
> diatomite and marls,
> are periods of higher water tables and increased
> ground water
> discharge. They are not all of the same age.
>
>
>
> Haynes (2003) stated:
>
>
>
> "Younger Dryas (YD) age "black mats" (YDBM),
>
> while variable, represent moister conditions
>
> than before or after deposition.
>
>
>
> Higher water tables, some perched, are indicated by
>
> Wet meadow soils, algal mats, and pond sediments
>
> Including marls and diatomites, some of which are
>
> white. Geochronological study of over 50 localities
>
> from Arizona to Canada reveal that YDBMs contain
>
> the earliest post-Clovis archaeological evidence and
>
>
> overlie the last Rancholabrean faunas.
>
>
>
> Upland or lowland YDBMs occur sometimes as facies
>
> Or catenas. Regional YD paleosols include the Brady
>
> Of Nebraska and the Leonard of the Dakotas. On
>
> uplands these are darker and thicker in swales and
>
> may reflect perched groundwater or poor drainage.
>
> In lowlands they occur deeply buried beneath
>
> floodplains; in some colluvial settings multiple
> black
>
> bands are separated by lighter colored slope wash.
>
> Some YDBMs are related to springfed meadows and
>
> ponds formed during increased-discharge periods."
>
>
>
> and Huckleberry et al. (2004) stated:
>
>
>
> "After ca. 11,000 14C yr B.P., sandy and finer
>
> alluvial muds commonly contain a dark organic
>
> zone or "black mat." These black mats are related
>
> to elevated water tables and increased spring
>
> activity and cluster in age at 9,500 to 10,500
>
> 14C yr B.P. (Quade et al., 1998). Quade et al.
>
> (1998) suggest these black mats and associated
>
> spring-fed channels formed in response to
>
> moister conditions during the Younger Dryas
>
> and preserve the last episode of increased spring
>
> discharge before substantial drying occurred in
>
> the early Holocene."
>
>
> Also, other "black mats" can be found in sediments
> both post-
>
> dating and predating the Clovis Culture all over the
> United States.
>
> For example, in the Lake King basin in Trans-Pecos
> Texas, black
>
> mats have been dated at 17,200, 19,000, 22,600, and
> 24,700
>
> radiocarbon years BP. Quade et al. (1998) decribes
> several "black
>
> mats", which have been dated as being much younger
> than Clovis,
>
> i.e. 1450 , 2320, 6670, 7920, and 7230 BP. In Figure
> 11, they show
>
> a picture of a "modern black mat marginal to a small
> spring-fed
>
> channel below Indian Springs Ranch in Steptoe
> Valley, northeast
>
> Nevada". Black mats are unique neither to Clovis
> Sites nor times.
>
> All the black mats indicates is that they occupying
> locations
>
> adjacent to spring-fed wet meadows and channels
> during periods
>
> of high ground water table and discharge. All they
> do is indicate
>
> that dramatic climate change occurred during the
> Younger Dryas.
>
> Of course, that is well known and the significant
> question is what
>
> caused it.
>
>
>
> The black layers, which are seen in photographs are
> **not**
>
> composed of impactite. These black mats, which occur
> at some
> Paleo-Indian sites are only hypothesized to contain
> microscopic
>
> impactites. It is quite impossible to see such
> impactites in any
>
> photographs. the see the alleged impactites, a
> person has to
> conduct a detailed microscopic analysis of the
> material.
>
>
>
> When I worked at the Lubbock Lake Site in Lubbock
> Texas,
>
> I actually excavated bison bones and artifacts from
> the ?black
> mats?E which occur at that site. If only I had known
> the
> controversy, which they would cause, I would have
> copies of
> the slide, which I took before giving them to the
> Lubbock Lake
> Site Museum.
>
> Given all of the fuss about these black mats, I
> should contact my
> archaeologists friends to get some samples to look
> at for myself.
>
>
>
> References Cited
>
>
>
> Haynes, C. V. Jr, 2003, Younger Dryas "Black Mats"
>
> and other stratigraphic manifestations of climate
> change in
>
> North America. XVI INQUA congress; Shaping the
> Earth; a
>
> Quaternary perspective. Congress of the
> International Union
>
> for Quaternary Research, 2003, vol. 16, pp. 191.
> [gsa.confex.com]
>
>
>
> Huckleberry, G., C. Beck, G. T. Jones, A. Holmes, M.
> Cannon
>
> S. Livingston, and J. M. Broughton, 2001, Terminal
> Pleistocene/
>
> Early Holocene Environmental Change at the Sunshine
> Locality,
>
> North-Central Nevada, U.S.A. Quaternary Research.
> vol. 55,
>
> no. 3, pp. 303-312.
>
>
>
> Quade, J., R. M. Forester, W. L. Pratt, and C.
> Carter, 1998, Black
>
> mats, spring-fed streams, and lateglacial-age
> recharge in the southern
>
> Great Basin. Quaternary Research. vol. 49, pp.
> 129-148.
>
>
>
> Other discussion of paleoenvironmental significance
> of
>
> ?Black Mats?Ecan be found in:
>
>
>
> Mehringer, P. J., Jr., and C. V. Haynes, Jr., 1965,
> The Pollen
>
> Evidence for the Environment of Early Man and
> Extinct
>
> Mammals at the Lehner Mammoth Site, Southeastern
> Arizona
>
> American Antiquity. vol. 31, no. 1, pp. 17-23.
>
>
>
> Waters, M. R., 1991, The Geoarchaeology of Gullies
> and Arroyos
>
> in Southern Arizona. Journal of Field Archaeology.
> vol. 18, no. 2,
>
> pp. 141-159.
>
>
>
> Waters, M. R., 2000, Alluvial stratigraphy and
> geoarchaeology
>
> in the American Southwest. Geoarchaeology. Vol. 15,
> no. 6,
>
> pp 537-577.
>
>
>
> Waters, M. R., and D. D. Kuehn, 1996, The
> Geoarchaeology of
>
> Place: The Effect of Geological Processes on the
> Preservation
>
> and Interpretation of the Archaeological Record
> American
>
> Antiquity. vol. 61, no. 3, pp. 483-497.
>
>
>
> Yours,
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
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Received on Sun 26 Aug 2007 10:58:27 AM PDT