[meteorite-list] An open message to all list members

From: Dave Freeman mjwy <dfreeman_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun Aug 27 20:02:45 2006
Message-ID: <44F232AA.6040900_at_fascination.com>

Dear Dave, List;
It was the idealism of the very infant IMCA to strive to get it's
members (and the entire meteorite community) to offer a higher level of
ethics....let me repeat that....It was the ideal of the infant IMCA to
strive to get it's members to offer a higher level of ethics....
That being said, is Ssteve an IMCA member, and why would anyone buy from
anyone who is not a member?

This was the idealism set to task a number of years ago. There will
always be losers selling meteorites. When the riff-raff and wanta-be's
become too frequent, maybe the IMCA seal will mean a great more to
individuals than it does now. If you aren't an IMCA member, why not,
and if you are, do you support only IMCA member dealers or do you
support these riffraff sellers that continually (and I am talking about
a number of years of phony sales tactics in this case) offer suspect
auctions and bogus claims? The market she is in ruin and it is the
repeat offenders that continue foreword and get encouragement from the
uninformed or those that choose to associate with these suspect
individuals.
Ssteve's issues have been an issue for all meteorite collectors every
since he came to the meteorite list and became a meteorite dealer.
Leopards seldom loose their spots regardless of their seemingly sincere
claims.
I am sure there are a couple others that most knowledgeable collectors
stay away from as well. To a degree, we cannot protect dumb collectors
from making bad choices with very suspect individuals. I rather to
think we all should support better quality dealers and let less
desirable individuals become extinct. The story of
He-Who's-Name-We-Do-Not-Mention is a prime example of a united meteorite
community. Petty crooks don't seem to rate this type of excommunication
these days it would seem.
Sincerely,
Dave F.
IMCA #3864 since the beginning

Dave Carothers wrote:

>To all list members,
>
>
>
>I?m sure most of you have seen my emails relating to the misrepresentations
>and falsehoods perpetrated by Steve (Chicago) Arnold in his ads and posts.
>First of all, let me apologize to the list membership for making these
>emails public and in effect, loading up your mailboxes. I believe there is
>good reason, however, for making these emails public. It is for that reason
>I felt I should explain some of the background issues and provide my
>rationale below.
>
>
>
>Everyone on this list has invested a lot of time, effort, and most
>importantly, money in their respective meteorite collections. I personally
>take great umbrage at anyone who would jeopardize my collection, either
>directly or indirectly, by casting ANY doubt on ANY facet or aspect of
>collecting meteorites. The process of buying and selling meteorites and the
>specimens themselves ALL have to be genuine and above reproach at ALL times
>
>
>
>We also have a number of list members who make their living by selling
>meteorites. I won?t even begin to speak for them, but I?ve seen several of
>these folks get down and dirty at any potential threat to their livelihood?.
>and rightfully so.
>
>
>
>My issue with Steve (Chicago) Arnold is that he just doesn?t care what he
>puts in his ads. In July, when I first caught his ads containing
>misrepresentations and falsehoods, he told me:
>
>
>
>
>
>?WHAT IS IT TO YOU?? MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.?
>
>
>
>
>
>I ask you all?. What kind of reply is that? What does that tell you about
>Steve (Chicago) Arnold?s integrity and morals?
>
>
>
>Today, I noticed a misrepresentation on one of his eBay sales and mentioned
>it on the list (as I previously promised I would --- see below). Again, I
>received these rather disturbing comments from Steve.
>
>
>
>
>
>?I REALLY WISH YOU WOULD STOP HARRASING ME ABOUT THIS PETTY BULL****.?
>[replaced with * so as to not offend]
>
>
>
>?I AM TIRED OF PEOPLE CONTINOUSLY HARRISING ME FOR NO REASON.?
>
>
>
>?IT IS NOT YOUR PURPOSE IN LIFE TO POLICE ME OR EBAY,OR ANYONE ELSE IN THIS
>WORLD EXCEPT YOURSELF.ENOUGH OF THIS BULL****.? [replaced with * so as to
>not offend]
>
>
>
>
>
>I?m sorry, but if anyone thinks that perpetrating misrepresentations and
>falsehoods when selling meteorites is ?PETTY BULL****? or that calling it to
>his attention is ?HARRISING ME FOR NO REASON? then WE as a community have
>REAL problems. This poor pathetic act of his is a scam. I invite all list
>members to go back to the archives and look at Steve?s MO. If anyone
>catches him doing something he shouldn?t, he immediate screams that he is
>being harassed.
>
>
>
>OK, so why am I getting involved in this? I see Steve (Chicago) Arnold as a
>direct threat to this great hobby (and in some cases, livelihood) of ours
>and also more specifically to the time, effort, and money I?ve invested in
>my collection. As I told Steve several weeks ago:
>
>
>
>
>
>?You're a dangerous person, Steve. You're a danger to any and ALL
>legitimate dealers, sellers, and collectors of meteorites. You're like the
>auto industry back 40-50 years ago. They used to misrepresent and make
>false claims about the safety of their vehicles and then, along came a man
>named Nader.
>
>
>
>I gave you fair warning in two previous emails that I was 1) going to make
>it my business "MAKING SURE UNSUSPECTING POTENTIAL BUYERS ARE AWARE OF YOUR
>LIES" and 2) "any recurrence will again be brought out in a public forum".
>
>
>
>You now have my undivided attention. I've going to be your own personal
>Ralph Nader. Every time you post a misleading/untruthful/fraudulent ad, I'm
>going to expose it... publicly. You're a loose canon on deck and someone
>needs to expose you for what you are.?
>
>
>
>
>
>I told Steve today, that he could stop my posts if he would just stop the
>misrepresentations and falsehoods.
>
>
>
>Some of you might be thinking that I?m just picking on Steve. Well, in all
>honesty, I?ve gone after several other sellers on eBay who have done the
>same thing (and I'll continue to do so). The responses I got back from them
>was typically something like? Oh, I?m sorry. I made a mistake and will
>correct it immediately. Watching these individuals over time and you don?t
>see a recurrence. In other words, it was a one-time, honest mistake. Steve
>(Chicago) Arnold has my undivided attention because he does this repeatedly
>and responds with comments like ?WHAT IS IT TO YOU?? MIND YOUR OWN
>BUSINESS.?
>
>
>
>Again, I apologize to all list members for these emails. I?m hoping the
>publicity and peer pressure will convince Steve (Chicago) Arnold develop a
>different set of morals.
>
>______________________________________________
>Meteorite-list mailing list
>Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
>http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
>
Received on Sun 27 Aug 2006 08:02:50 PM PDT