[meteorite-list] Auctioneer Abuse of Meteorites was: Pallasite

From: Martin Altmann <Altmann_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat Nov 26 10:47:58 2005
Message-ID: <00dd01c5f2a2$952857c0$14599a54_at_9y6y40j>

Hi Doug,

I see it more pragmatically.
The terms&conditions the seller/buyer knows before.
Don't know whether they are so different from other auction houses like
Christie's, Sotheby and all the rest of them.
Nor do I think, that they are meteorite pimps, maximum meteoritically
pimply.
(I guess the seller wrote the description, as I wouldn't expect those
auctioneers to have a clue about meteorites).

Doug, don't forget, that almost nobody on this planet knows what a meteorite
is, and almost all, who knows it, make no difference between a Tucson Ring
and a Canyon Diablo, even not mineral collectors or stargazers (from this
two groups most meteorite collectors were recruited).

And there I have to say, the estimated values for the Nantans is o.k, as I
suppose this auction house addressea to another audience, than those
ebay-junkies, who hang 12 hours per day in front of the screen to wait for a
downetched Nantan crystal going for 100/kg.
The estimated value of the Fukang is more problematic, as this locality
didn't found its price yet, which will depend on how much material will
appear on market in future. If the Russians will get it in their fingers,
one will be able to buy it on ebay in a few months at a
Brahin-Seymchan-price, if few more careful persons will obtain the main
masses, we will have to pay a normal pallasite's price.

>From my point of view, as I sell meteorites, I welcome such activities,
cause it helps to add more popularity to our hobby, creating more collectors
(and buyers).
>From a collectors point of view it might be different, as we all benefit
currently from the backlog of material and the fact that there exist only a
few thousands (or less) collectors.
(Can be a problem - at times melanchollically I remember the years around
1990, before there were some exhibitions of baroque celestial charts
(another hobby of mine) in USA. Suddenly it was tres chic for anyone, who
was a little bit wealthy to plaster his loft with celestial charts. As they
are very limited the prices skyrocketed in the following years and nowadays
one has to pay ten times more than then.)

Anyway, I can't understand, that one rather carves a beetle out of a
lunaite, then to sell the stone with an adequate hoop-la via such an auction
house to a suitable group of buyers.

Hey, I think that Fukang slice deserves a better polish to fir better to the
description.

Buckleboo!
Martin



----- Original Message -----
From: <MexicoDoug_at_aol.com>
To: <Altmann_at_Meteorite-Martin.de>; <steve_arnol60120@yahoo.com>
Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 3:24 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Auctioneer Abuse of Meteorites was: Pallasite


Nice Find Martin, it was nice to actually see this new material that is
thrilling to some listmemembers:), though there is no real guaranty of
authenticity offered.

In case someone out there really is motivated to participate, I just would
like to express my opinion, that these are more meteorite pimps: Only a
bunch
of thieves would appear to do this. I guess they think with a cheap British
(or Stagecoach) sounding name like "Bonham & Butterfield" they add some
mysterious value. There are five more meteorites sharing the company of
the sample
of the pallasite from the Fukang locality, did you notice? All the others
are Nantan Irons!!

Let's look at the economics of a sale of lot 8079, the 2.02 kg Nantan:

If it sells for the low price of the range, $400:

$470 collected from buyer included "premium"
$70 retained as buyer's premium by auctioneer
$100 commission retained by auctioneer from Seller
$150 catalog picture kept by auctioneer
$30 online uploaded image kept by auctioneer
$6 insurance fee collected by auctioneer

NET amount remitted to Seller: $114
TOTAL Kept by Auctioneer: $356

Sounds like purchases on eBay through PayPal just might offer better
protection, as evidenced by the Auctioneers statement of responsibility and
authenticity:

Lots are sold on an *as is* basis but the actual condition of a Lot may not
be as good as indicated by its outward appearance. In particular parts may
have been replaced or renewed and Lots may not be authentic or of
satisfactory
quality.

Oh, that's nice, and let me guess, even if it is later shown that the
meteorite wasn't authentic, the auctioneer will do it's best to hang on to
its $356
or a good part of it as it is so costly to hold an auction when use a fancy
auctioneer name. Uh huh...into the thieves category they go, for
irresponsible. Of course the Seller is responsible in their book not them
they'll have
nothing to do with responsibility, and for that the seller gets 24.2% of
the
sale procedes for a meteorite of questionable pedigree.

How shameful such abuse still takes place, but I guess "Ye pays ya money
and
ye takes ya chances." I'd invite anyone to to correct anything I've
inadvertantly overlooked.

Saludos, Doug
PS - and that misleading comment that Esquel somehow isn't as nice because
it has been sawed into hundreds of pieces. I am scratching my head on
still
on that note, as it appears that the lot offered itself is not exactly the
main mass either...at less than a kilogram, but they had to add: "The
specimen's
very large size" as a descriptor



En un mensaje con fecha 11/26/2005 6:31:08 AM Mexico Standard Time,
Altmann_at_Meteorite-Martin.de escribe:
You can buy your slice at a Bonham's auction in L.A. on 4th of Dec.

"
Help
Flash version Copyright ? 2002-2005 Bonhams 1793 Ltd., Images and Text All
Rights Reserved
Lot No: 8084

Fukang Meteorite Slice - An Important New Discovery
Stoney Iron - Pallasite
Fukang, China
An extraordinary discovery made in 2003, the Fukang Meteorite is arguably
the world's preeminent pallasitic meteorite. The present cut and polished
slice is the first specimen of this distinguished meteorite to be made
available to the public. Displaying much larger olivine crystals than have
ever been seen before, the superlative Fukang meteorite is in outstanding
condition; its nickel-iron matrix exhibits abundant high quality olivine
crystals. The quality of some of the crystals is so fine that they may be
classified as peridot crystals, a gem form of olivine.

A brief history of Pallasites:
In 1749 on a remote wooded ridge of Mount Emir, Siberia, the first
pallasite
meteorite was discovered. The native Tartars believed the iron was a holy
relic that had fallen from the heavens. In 1772, Peter Simon Pallas, the
German scientist for whom this category of meteorites was named, visited
the
site and removed samples of the 700-kilogram mass. Although it would be
several years before scientists would accept the theory that stones and
irons fall from the heavens, the Pallas iron was eventually recognized as a
meteorite and identified as such. The large mass is now on display at the
Academy of Sciences Mineral Museum.

Over the next 161 years, other much smaller pallasites were discovered and
identified. Then, in 1937 at Huckitta, Australia, a pallasite weighing
1,411
kilograms was found; unfortunately, nearly the entire specimen had
weathered
into iron shale, leaving only 450 kilograms of intact specimen which is
currently in Adelaide, Australia.

Fourteen years later, in 1951, a 1,500-kilogram pallasite was found in
Esquel, Argentina. A private individual maintained ownership until 1992
when
it was sold and was subsequently sawed into hundreds of small pieces. The
largest intact piece of the specimen is now less than 200 kilograms.

Not since 1951 has as large and significant a pallasite been found as the
Fukang Meteorite, discovered outside a tiny village in Northwestern China
in
2003. The specimen's very large size, superb quality and enormous,
high-quality crystals make it a find of historic importance.
Measuring 8 1/2 x 8 1/2 x 1/8in. Weighing 910 grams.

Estimate: $18,000 to 22,000

http://www.bonhams.com/cgi-bin/public.sh/pubweb/publicSite.r?sContinent=EUR&sc
reen=lotdetailsNoFlash&iSaleItemNo=2651951&iSaleNo=13327&sServer=http://imag
es
2.bonhams.com/&sPath=2005-10/10/7153424-48-1.jpg

Regards.
Martin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!" <steve_arnol60120_at_yahoo.com>
To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2005 12:14 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] FUKANG METEORITE


> Hello again list.I got an email from a list member stating that the main
> mass of the fukang meteorite is at u of arizona.Man that piece looks like
> over 900 kilo's.Does anyone have a close approximate of the TKW?I can
> hardly wait to get a piece.
>
>
> steve arnold, chicago
>
> Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120
>
>
> Illinois Meteorites,Ltd!
>
>
> website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>


Saludos, Doug

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Received on Sat 26 Nov 2005 11:00:53 AM PST