[meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo

From: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Dec 8 17:29:57 2005
Message-ID: <019b01c5fc45$8db1a620$6401a8c0_at_c1720188a>

Hi Martin and List,

I have no problem with questions being asked about the provenance of a
particular piece as this is very important. It is unfortunate that there are
numerous IAB Course Octahedrites in existence because of the similarities to
Campo del Cielo. Several Course Octahedrites from the Mojave desert
including the Old Woman have been located before this was even an issue.
Now every time one is found collectors assume the worse and that some kind
of fraud is being committed. In my opinion, there is only one meteorite that
can be called Baygorria and that is the original 80 Kg piece that was
studied. It could be a transported Campo, either in ancient or modern times,
no one knows for sure. Canyon Diablos have been transported for centuries by
Indians and not for fraudulent purposes. A good laboratory can spot the
differences in most cases and that is why it is important to have them
studied.

Kind Regards,

------------------------------------
Adam Hupe
The Hupe Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185
raremeteorites_at_comcast.net


----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Altmann" <altmann_at_meteorite-martin.de>
To: "Adam Hupe" <raremeteorites_at_comcast.net>;
<meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 2:10 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo


> Hi Adam,
>
> I didn't want to doubt, just wanted to have the circumstances,
> that the trace elements are almost identical is the natural crux, as
> accordingt to them the irons are grouped to the chemical classes. And as
> here additionally NWA 849 is said to have silicate inclusions as Campo has
> too, but which aren't found in all IABs, I was just curious, to learn
about
> the provenance!
>
> Best!
> Martin
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adam Hupe" <raremeteorites_at_comcast.net>
> To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 8:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo
>
>
> > Hi List Members,
> >
> > Martin asked about the similarities between NWA 849 and Campo with this
> > statement:
> >
> > **************************************************
> > And can me someone tell me details about NWA 849 vs. Campo?
> > http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/HB2W.jpg
> > Looks so similar and the values are so similar.
> > **************************************************
> >
> > Coordinates were provided for NWA 849 by the Aronsons of Sahara
Overland
> > and I believe this piece was studied at UCLA. I am sure if UCLA
suspected
> > this material was Campo they would have noted this since they run into
> Campo
> > all time according to an article I read in Meteorite Magazine. I have
had
> > nothing but honest business dealings with Sahara Overland and have no
> reason
> > to doubt the meteorites origin. There are a few other high-integrity
> dealers
> > like the Jensens who also carry NWA 849. IAB Course octahedrites are
one
> of
> > the most common Iron type meteorites out there so the provenance is very
> > important.
> >
> > In the Case of Baygorria, it is my belief that these are all definitely
> > paired to Campo del Cielo. The dealers who brought this material to
Tucson
> > admitted the fraud to Mike Farmer in Spanish which Mike speaks fluently.
> Not
> > only that, the entry in the Meteoritical Bulletin states that they are
> > similar in composition. Given the heterogeneity of iron meteorites and
the
> > slight differences in calibration of equipment used to study them, I
would
> > state the original Baygorria consisting of a single stone and Campo del
> > Cielo are virtually identical.
> >
> > All course octahedrites are susceptible to weathering because of the
> > relatively low nickel content so this cannot be used to distinguish them
> > from one another. Only one Baygorria has ever been submitted for lab
work
> > and was determined to be similar to Campo del Cielo, everything else is
a
> > fraud.
> >
> > Expressing my opinion, if in doubt, check it out!
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> > Adam Hupe
> > The Hupe Collection
> > Team LunarRock
> > IMCA 2185
> > raremeteorites_at_comcast.net
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Martin Altmann" <altmann_at_meteorite-martin.de>
> > To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 5:05 AM
> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo
> >
> >
> > > And can me someone tell me details about NWA 849 vs. Campo?
> > > http://www.michaelbloodmeteorites.com/HB2W.jpg
> > > Looks so similar and the values are so similar.
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Steve Arnold, Chicago!!" <steve_arnol60120_at_yahoo.com>
> > > To: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 12:07 PM
> > > Subject: [meteorite-list] baygorria vs. campo
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hello list.Can someone answer this for me?BAYGORRIA VS. CAMPO!They
> look
> > > > alike.They say it is similar in composition.Yet 2 different
> > strewnfields.I
> > > > saw a slew of baygorria pieces on ebay and am just wondering,has the
> > > > analysis come in yet for this meteorite?I hear that they are just
> campos
> > > > and someone has put another name on them.I know that they are
> > > > meteorites,but I know of 1 good place to get campos,for myself,no
> reason
> > > > to get more using another name.HELP!!!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > STEVE ARNOLD,CHICAGO
> > > >
> > > > Steve R.Arnold, Chicago, IL, 60120
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Illinois Meteorites,Ltd!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > website url http://stormbringer60120.tripod.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________________________
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Received on Thu 08 Dec 2005 05:20:09 PM PST