[meteorite-list] Trust - Was...Honest Answer...

From: Adam Hupe <raremeteorites_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun Nov 21 20:07:20 2004
Message-ID: <047001c4d02e$11632600$6401a8c0_at_c1720188a>

Microprobed, read the abstract:

http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/snc/nwa1110.html

How else can you get ratios to support a Martian origin?

Adam



----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Wesel" <nakhladog_at_comcast.net>
To: "Adam Hupe" <raremeteorites_at_comcast.net>
Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trust - Was...Honest Answer...


> Looked at or microprobed?
>
> Bernhard asked, I answered, please see Dr. Grossman's evaluation of
"looked
> at"
>
> Rob Wesel
> ------------------
> We are the music makers...
> and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> Willy Wonka, 1971
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Adam Hupe" <raremeteorites_at_comcast.net>
> To: "Rob Wesel" <nakhladog_at_comcast.net>
> Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 4:47 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trust - Was...Honest Answer...
>
>
> > Rob,
> >
> > What are you talking about. A type specimen for NWA 1110 was submitted
to
> > and studied by the University of Washington. Thin sections were cut,
> > pieces
> > were analyzed with a microprobe, specimens were sent out for Isotope
work
> > and dating. NWA 1110 is a well studied set of stones. Every fragment
was
> > cleaned and then looked at by Dr. Irving. Dr. Irving rejected several
of
> > the pebbles that were submitted as being terrestrial otherwise nobody
> > would
> > have known the difference. The NomCom then voted on this group of
gravel
> > and made it official. Dr Irving not only works in a laboratory he is
one
> > of
> > the few scientist who has actually gone on a Team LunarRock expedition
to
> > Morocco. He knows what is going on in and is work is of the highest
> > standard.
> >
> > Think about what you are saying,
> >
> > Adam
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Rob Wesel" <nakhladog_at_comcast.net>
> > To: "Bernhard Rems" <rendelius_at_rpgdot.com>
> > Cc: <Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 3:58 PM
> > Subject: [meteorite-list] Trust - Was...Honest Answer...
> >
> >
> >> Well, easy enough, I don't have any NWA 1110, never did so that answers
> >> that.
> >>
> >> You hit on trust. Trust is the way every meteorite in history has been
> > sold
> >> until the dawn of NWA naming rules. Once again, every L'Aigle, every
Gao,
> >> every Holbrook and Canyon Diablo.
> >> Burkina Faso has a new fall Lampiayrie, so add that to Gao, Guenie,
> > Bilanga
> >> and to have a "high collection area" where pairings rules are not
> > conducted
> >> or required. Trust is the very thing I am talking about. I strongly
> > suspect
> >> that no non-NWA meteorite in your collection has been tested, if so the
> >> ratio is way down. Do things fall through the cracks, yes. Calcalong
> > Creek
> >> is the paramount example, had Bob Haag had a bad day and just weighed
and
> >> bagged it as Millbillillie then it likely would have been lost. But, by
> > and
> >> large, the system ain't broke so why fix it. Buy from people you trust,
> > like
> >> centuries of collectors in the past. I have sold to you more than once,
I
> >> hope you trust me. I have nothing to hide. I merely offer that this
> >> recent
> >> chest beating is marketing disguised as science, and the scientist just
> >> confirmed it in saying that visual pairings are worthless and of little
> >> scientific importance. NWA 1110 was visually paired, A+B=C, so trust
who
> > you
> >> will, you still just bought a piece of paper if you bought NWA 1110.
> >>
> >> I am following the NomCom rules, I am doing what is asked. That does
not
> >> mean I endorse it. I am 100% in favor of the scientific advancement in
> >> various fields that type specimens provide...but this is not science,
> >> it's
> >> marketing.
> >>
> >> Trust
> >>
> >> Point in fact, the only questionable material in my inventory came from
> > the
> >> Hupes in the names NWA 1929, NWA 1906, NWA 801, NWA 978, and possibly
NWA
> >> 1836, a claim which I can support with documents sitting right here on
my
> >> desk and must now sort out at their own litigious request. So trust who
> > you
> >> will.
> >>
> >> Furthermore, with the publishing of the "who's naughty and who's nice
> > lists"
> >> is a customer what bought a large amount of classified NWA 3118 from my
> >> by
> >> way of the Hupes and is intended for resale. Adam posts to the list the
> >> people you can "trust" and because I don't report every sale I make to
> >> him
> >> this buyer is not mentioned as "trustworthy". He is new to the business
> > and
> >> is flooded with people he has now sold to asking if his 3118 is legit.
He
> >> panics a bit, checks with me and I confirm it is HUPE OFFICIAL
material.
> > He
> >> then sends a letter to Adam asking to be included in this stupid game
of
> >> Hupe sanctioned sellers and receives no reply. So he's still being
> >> questioned. Oh yeah, this is great for the hobby, a new seller's
business
> > is
> >> hurt and everyone is doubting his material that was all delivered from
> > high
> >> upon Mt. Hupe in the first place.
> >>
> >> So Bernhard, I know you to be a man of intellect, please do not buy
into
> >> this grandstanding.
> >>
> >> Mike Farmer pointed out the simple truth (and this is not a direct
> >> quote)...we all did this, now we do it as requested by the NomCom
(flawed
> > as
> >> it admittedly is as outlined by Dr. Grossman) or we spiral further into
> > this
> >> Gestapo climate we are already in.
> >>
> >> Trust who you will
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Rob Wesel
> >> ------------------
> >> We are the music makers...
> >> and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
> >> Willy Wonka, 1971
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Bernhard Rems" <rendelius_at_rpgdot.com>
> >> To: "'Rob Wesel'" <nakhladog_at_comcast.net>
> >> Cc: <Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> >> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 2:43 PM
> >> Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] Thanks for the honest answer Dr. Grossman
> >>
> >>
> >> > Rob,
> >> >
> >> > what I will write isn't from a scientific point of view. I am no
> >> > scientist. I am a collector. So what I will write is from a
collector's
> >> > point of view.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > With no meteorite I have ever bought on ebay or elsewhere, I got
proof
> >> > that what was sold to me was actually what it was advertised to be.
> >> > It's
> >> > hard to proof it, even the so called certificates of authenticy are
> >> > nothing more than paper, since there is only one person in the world
> >> > who
> >> > can guarantee that the meteorite is what he is said to be: the
original
> >> > holder of the classified material.
> >> >
> >> > So, when there is no proof - the only thing that remains is trust. I
> >> > have to trust the seller that he sells me what he tells me. If this
> >> > trust is shaken by something, I will stay away from him in the
future.
> >> >
> >> > There are two easy questions I want to ask you:
> >> >
> >> > 1) How can you PROOF you sell NWA 1110 when you sell NWA 1110? Just
> >> > tell
> >> > me what proofs for YOU that you are selling NWA 1110.
> >> > 2) How can you be sure that the material you are selling is martian?
> >> > Just tell me what proofs for YOU that you are selling a martian
> >> > meteorite with NWA 1110.
> >> >
> >> > Answer them in a way that makes me trust in you. I assume that when
you
> >> > bought that material, you asked the seller the same questions, right?
> >> >
> >> > Bernhard
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________
> >> Meteorite-list mailing list
> >> Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
> >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
Received on Sun 21 Nov 2004 07:55:10 PM PST