[meteorite-list] Trust - Was...Honest Answer...

From: Rob Wesel <nakhladog_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sun Nov 21 20:02:15 2004
Message-ID: <000e01c4d02e$9cf63270$46d5a943_at_robewcufk0z2s3>

Looked at or microprobed?

Bernhard asked, I answered, please see Dr. Grossman's evaluation of "looked
at"

Rob Wesel
------------------
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971



----- Original Message -----
From: "Adam Hupe" <raremeteorites_at_comcast.net>
To: "Rob Wesel" <nakhladog_at_comcast.net>
Cc: <meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 4:47 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Trust - Was...Honest Answer...


> Rob,
>
> What are you talking about. A type specimen for NWA 1110 was submitted to
> and studied by the University of Washington. Thin sections were cut,
> pieces
> were analyzed with a microprobe, specimens were sent out for Isotope work
> and dating. NWA 1110 is a well studied set of stones. Every fragment was
> cleaned and then looked at by Dr. Irving. Dr. Irving rejected several of
> the pebbles that were submitted as being terrestrial otherwise nobody
> would
> have known the difference. The NomCom then voted on this group of gravel
> and made it official. Dr Irving not only works in a laboratory he is one
> of
> the few scientist who has actually gone on a Team LunarRock expedition to
> Morocco. He knows what is going on in and is work is of the highest
> standard.
>
> Think about what you are saying,
>
> Adam
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rob Wesel" <nakhladog_at_comcast.net>
> To: "Bernhard Rems" <rendelius_at_rpgdot.com>
> Cc: <Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 3:58 PM
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Trust - Was...Honest Answer...
>
>
>> Well, easy enough, I don't have any NWA 1110, never did so that answers
>> that.
>>
>> You hit on trust. Trust is the way every meteorite in history has been
> sold
>> until the dawn of NWA naming rules. Once again, every L'Aigle, every Gao,
>> every Holbrook and Canyon Diablo.
>> Burkina Faso has a new fall Lampiayrie, so add that to Gao, Guenie,
> Bilanga
>> and to have a "high collection area" where pairings rules are not
> conducted
>> or required. Trust is the very thing I am talking about. I strongly
> suspect
>> that no non-NWA meteorite in your collection has been tested, if so the
>> ratio is way down. Do things fall through the cracks, yes. Calcalong
> Creek
>> is the paramount example, had Bob Haag had a bad day and just weighed and
>> bagged it as Millbillillie then it likely would have been lost. But, by
> and
>> large, the system ain't broke so why fix it. Buy from people you trust,
> like
>> centuries of collectors in the past. I have sold to you more than once, I
>> hope you trust me. I have nothing to hide. I merely offer that this
>> recent
>> chest beating is marketing disguised as science, and the scientist just
>> confirmed it in saying that visual pairings are worthless and of little
>> scientific importance. NWA 1110 was visually paired, A+B=C, so trust who
> you
>> will, you still just bought a piece of paper if you bought NWA 1110.
>>
>> I am following the NomCom rules, I am doing what is asked. That does not
>> mean I endorse it. I am 100% in favor of the scientific advancement in
>> various fields that type specimens provide...but this is not science,
>> it's
>> marketing.
>>
>> Trust
>>
>> Point in fact, the only questionable material in my inventory came from
> the
>> Hupes in the names NWA 1929, NWA 1906, NWA 801, NWA 978, and possibly NWA
>> 1836, a claim which I can support with documents sitting right here on my
>> desk and must now sort out at their own litigious request. So trust who
> you
>> will.
>>
>> Furthermore, with the publishing of the "who's naughty and who's nice
> lists"
>> is a customer what bought a large amount of classified NWA 3118 from my
>> by
>> way of the Hupes and is intended for resale. Adam posts to the list the
>> people you can "trust" and because I don't report every sale I make to
>> him
>> this buyer is not mentioned as "trustworthy". He is new to the business
> and
>> is flooded with people he has now sold to asking if his 3118 is legit. He
>> panics a bit, checks with me and I confirm it is HUPE OFFICIAL material.
> He
>> then sends a letter to Adam asking to be included in this stupid game of
>> Hupe sanctioned sellers and receives no reply. So he's still being
>> questioned. Oh yeah, this is great for the hobby, a new seller's business
> is
>> hurt and everyone is doubting his material that was all delivered from
> high
>> upon Mt. Hupe in the first place.
>>
>> So Bernhard, I know you to be a man of intellect, please do not buy into
>> this grandstanding.
>>
>> Mike Farmer pointed out the simple truth (and this is not a direct
>> quote)...we all did this, now we do it as requested by the NomCom (flawed
> as
>> it admittedly is as outlined by Dr. Grossman) or we spiral further into
> this
>> Gestapo climate we are already in.
>>
>> Trust who you will
>>
>>
>>
>> Rob Wesel
>> ------------------
>> We are the music makers...
>> and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
>> Willy Wonka, 1971
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Bernhard Rems" <rendelius_at_rpgdot.com>
>> To: "'Rob Wesel'" <nakhladog_at_comcast.net>
>> Cc: <Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com>
>> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 2:43 PM
>> Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] Thanks for the honest answer Dr. Grossman
>>
>>
>> > Rob,
>> >
>> > what I will write isn't from a scientific point of view. I am no
>> > scientist. I am a collector. So what I will write is from a collector's
>> > point of view.
>> >
>> >
>> > With no meteorite I have ever bought on ebay or elsewhere, I got proof
>> > that what was sold to me was actually what it was advertised to be.
>> > It's
>> > hard to proof it, even the so called certificates of authenticy are
>> > nothing more than paper, since there is only one person in the world
>> > who
>> > can guarantee that the meteorite is what he is said to be: the original
>> > holder of the classified material.
>> >
>> > So, when there is no proof - the only thing that remains is trust. I
>> > have to trust the seller that he sells me what he tells me. If this
>> > trust is shaken by something, I will stay away from him in the future.
>> >
>> > There are two easy questions I want to ask you:
>> >
>> > 1) How can you PROOF you sell NWA 1110 when you sell NWA 1110? Just
>> > tell
>> > me what proofs for YOU that you are selling NWA 1110.
>> > 2) How can you be sure that the material you are selling is martian?
>> > Just tell me what proofs for YOU that you are selling a martian
>> > meteorite with NWA 1110.
>> >
>> > Answer them in a way that makes me trust in you. I assume that when you
>> > bought that material, you asked the seller the same questions, right?
>> >
>> > Bernhard
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________
>> Meteorite-list mailing list
>> Meteorite-list_at_meteoritecentral.com
>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
>
>
Received on Sun 21 Nov 2004 08:00:08 PM PST