[meteorite-list] John's PF comic comments and mine, 2

From: MARK BOSTICK <thebigcollector_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:32:55 2004
Message-ID: <BAY4-DAV146MXrQ2Wdp00024857_at_hotmail.com>

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"1. Characterization that my "burgh" near my city was a bad neighborhood.=
.depicting guns and gangs...possibly true, maybe not?" =20
I have never been to Park Forest. I enjoyed the Garza interviews a lot an=
d many of the people I have met because of it are quite nice. Since this =
is a comic and not a broad political statement, I think it should be take=
n as such. But you appear to agree with that fact that guns and gangs are=
 in the neighborhood. Please remember this part when you read later parts=
 in this e-mail. A couple locals are helping me collect reports and my ex=
perience with the town has been pleasant. =20
"2. That all black people steal money from the innocent white folk...in t=
his case looking for meteorites. That is certainly not true. (I=E2=80=99m=
 pretty sure all colors/races steal from each other)" =20
I am not sure where you get that at all. If you would look at the image a=
gain, it shows a white and black gang member stealing from the hunter. If=
 I did show two blacks however, I would not think that means that "...ALL=
 black people....", and some quote from a well known book on the subject =
below I think supports my side. As we learn in life pretty fast. There is=
 good and back in all people. Personally I am neither white or black and =
I come from a mixed family and Wichita has a large military base....which=
 makes it a melting pot. I am one of the smallest minorities I know here =
in America. How many Filipino-American's live on your block? Living in a =
melting pot city, and coming from a mixed family, I didn't even understan=
d racism very well until I left the city for several years. =20
3. That someone actually had a gun to their face or was robbed while hunt=
ing meteorites in a PF neighborhood... =20
You are making it sound here that I a made a factual statement. I again c=
learly labeled it as a comic and as any kid can tell you, comics don't al=
ways show complete facts. It appears many of you are putting your own fee=
lings and thoughts onto this and not taking it for what is it a comic. An=
 interesting book you might find worth reading is "Laughter: An Essay on =
the Meaning of Comic by Henri Bergson. The following is taking from it, =20
"A word is said to be comic when it makes us laugh at the person who utte=
rs it, and witty when it makes us laugh either at a third party or at our=
selves. But in most cases we can hardly make up our minds whether the wor=
d is comic or witty. All that we can say is that it is laughable." =20
>From reading your e-mail John I think we can all agree this comic fits th=
at. Bergson notes that a person robbing another has been a common theme t=
hroughout the history of comic drawling. Here is what he says, =20
"Who are the actors in these scenes? With whom has the wit to deal? First=
 of all, with his interlocutors themselves, when his witticism is a direc=
t retort to one of them. Often with an absent person whom he supposes to =
have spoken and to whom he is replying. Still oftener, with the whole wor=
ld,--in the ordinary meaning of the term,--which he takes to task, twisti=
ng a current idea into a paradox, or making use of a hackneyed phrase, or=
 parodying some quotation or proverb. If we compare these scenes in minia=
ture with one another, we find they are almost always variations of a com=
ic theme with which we are well acquainted, that of the "robber robbed." =
You take up a metaphor, a phrase, an argument, and turn it against the ma=
n who is, or might be, its author, so that he is made to say what he did =
not mean to say and lets himself be caught, to some extent, in the toils =
of language. But the theme of the "robber robbed" is not the only possibl=
e one. We have gone over many varieties of the comic, and there is not on=
e of them that is incapable of being volatilized into a witticism." =20
What Berger is trying to say here and in the paragraphs before it, is tha=
t by nature, the witticism in the being robbed scene in a comic is someth=
ing we can all relate to and that while it can be turned against the writ=
er, that it is not a direct attack on a person or group, but more a refle=
ction of part of our society. Berger ends with saying it is "witticism", =
in others words, it is humor. =20
"Inadvertently to say or do what we have no intention of saying or doing,=
 as a result of inelasticity or momentum, is, as we are aware, one of the=
 main sources of the comic. Thus, absentmindedness is essentially laughab=
le, and so we laugh at anything rigid, ready- made, mechanical in gesture=
, attitude and even facial expression. Do we find this kind of rigidity i=
n language also? No doubt we do, since language contains ready-made formu=
las and stereotyped phrases. The man who always expressed himself in such=
 terms would invariably be comic. But if an isolated phrase is to be comi=
c in itself, when once separated from the person who utters it, it must b=
e something more than ready-made, it must bear within itself some sign wh=
ich tells us, beyond the possibility of doubt, that it was uttered automa=
tically." =20
In other words, it is important to some degree to use standard formulas i=
n comic art, such as bad guy wears black hat, and thr use well known ster=
eotyped phrases or looks is important to convey your image clearly and qu=
ickly. One example of this might be a if you were doing a cowboy comic, a=
nd having him saying "Hey partner" and wearing a cowboy hat. This tells s=
omeone, this is a cowboy. =20
"So=E2=80=A6was there bad taste in the cartoon." =20
Such is an opinionated view. However, it does sound as though, you had to=
 think if you liked it or not pretty good before deciding. Most satire ar=
tists would consider their comic a success if told such. If anyone would =
like to continue this debate, please keep comments in a debate like manne=
r. =20
Mark Bostick =20
www.meteoritearticles.com =20


Please visit, www.MeteoriteArticles.com, a free on-line archive of meteor=
 and meteorite articles.

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<HTML><BODY STYLE=3D"font:10pt verdana; border:none;"><DIV> <P>"1. Charac=
terization that my "burgh" near my city was a bad neighborhood...depictin=
g guns and gangs...possibly true, maybe not?" </P> <P>I have never been t=
o Park Forest. I enjoyed the Garza interviews a lot and many of the peopl=
e I have met because of it are quite nice. Since this is a comic and not =
a broad political statement, I think it should be taken as such. But you =
appear to agree with that fact that guns and gangs are in the neighborhoo=
d. Please remember this part when you read later parts in this e-mail. A =
couple locals are helping me collect reports and my experience with the t=
own has been pleasant. </P> <P>"2. That all black people steal money from=
 the innocent white folk...in this case looking for meteorites. That is c=
ertainly not true. (I=E2=80=99m pretty sure all colors/races steal from e=
ach other)" </P> <P>I am not sure where you get that at all. If you would=
 look at the image again, it shows a white and black gang member stealing=
 from the hunter. If I did show two blacks however, I would not think tha=
t means that "...ALL black people....", and some quote from a well known =
book on the subject below I think supports my side. As we learn in life p=
retty fast. There is good and back in all people. Personally I am neither=
 white or black and I come from a mixed family and Wichita has a large mi=
litary base....which makes it a melting pot. I am one of the smallest min=
orities I know here in America. How many Filipino-American's live on your=
 block? Living in a melting pot city, and coming from a mixed family, I d=
idn't even understand racism very well until I left the city for several =
years. </P> <P>3. That someone actually had a gun to their face or was ro=
bbed while hunting meteorites in a PF neighborhood... </P> <P>You are mak=
ing it sound here that I a made a factual statement. I again clearly labe=
led it as a comic and as any kid can tell you, comics don't always show c=
omplete facts. It appears many of you are putting your own feelings and t=
houghts onto this and not taking it for what is it a comic. An interestin=
g book you might find worth reading is "Laughter: An Essay on the Meaning=
 of Comic by Henri Bergson. The following is taking from it, </P> <P>"A w=
ord is said to be comic when it makes us laugh at the person who utters i=
t, and witty when it makes us laugh either at a third party or at ourselv=
es. But in most cases we can hardly make up our minds whether the word is=
 comic or witty. All that we can say is that it is laughable." </P> <P>Fr=
om reading your e-mail John I think we can all agree this comic fits that=
 Bergson notes that a person robbing another has been a common theme thr=
oughout the history of comic drawling. Here is what he says, </P> <P>"Who=
 are the actors in these scenes? With whom has the wit to deal? First of =
all, with his interlocutors themselves, when his witticism is a direct re=
tort to one of them. Often with an absent person whom he supposes to have=
 spoken and to whom he is replying. Still oftener, with the whole world,-=
-in the ordinary meaning of the term,--which he takes to task, twisting a=
 current idea into a paradox, or making use of a hackneyed phrase, or par=
odying some quotation or proverb. If we compare these scenes in miniature=
 with one another, we find they are almost always variations of a comic t=
heme with which we are well acquainted, that of the "robber robbed." You =
take up a metaphor, a phrase, an argument, and turn it against the man wh=
o is, or might be, its author, so that he is made to say what he did not =
mean to say and lets himself be caught, to some extent, in the toils of l=
anguage. But the theme of the "robber robbed" is not the only possible on=
e. We have gone over many varieties of the comic, and there is not one of=
 them that is incapable of being volatilized into a witticism." </P> <P>W=
hat Berger is trying to say here and in the paragraphs before it, is that=
 by nature, the witticism in the being robbed scene in a comic is somethi=
ng we can all relate to and that while it can be turned against the write=
r, that it is not a direct attack on a person or group, but more a reflec=
tion of part of our society. Berger ends with saying it is "witticism", i=
n others words, it is humor. </P> <P>"Inadvertently to say or do what we =
have no intention of saying or doing, as a result of inelasticity or mome=
ntum, is, as we are aware, one of the main sources of the comic. Thus, ab=
sentmindedness is essentially laughable, and so we laugh at anything rigi=
d, ready- made, mechanical in gesture, attitude and even facial expressio=
n. Do we find this kind of rigidity in language also? No doubt we do, sin=
ce language contains ready-made formulas and stereotyped phrases. The man=
 who always expressed himself in such terms would invariably be comic. Bu=
t if an isolated phrase is to be comic in itself, when once separated fro=
m the person who utters it, it must be something more than ready-made, it=
 must bear within itself some sign which tells us, beyond the possibility=
 of doubt, that it was uttered automatically." </P> <P>In other words, it=
 is important to some degree to use standard formulas in comic art, such =
as bad guy wears black hat, and thr use well known stereotyped phrases or=
 looks is important to convey your image clearly and quickly. One example=
 of this might be a if you were doing a cowboy comic, and having him sayi=
ng "Hey partner" and wearing a cowboy hat. This tells someone, this is a =
cowboy. </P> <P>"So=E2=80=A6was there bad taste in the cartoon." </P> <P>=
Such is an opinionated view. However, it does sound as though, you had to=
 think if you liked it or not pretty good before deciding. Most satire ar=
tists would consider their comic a success if told such. If anyone would =
like to continue this debate, please keep comments in a debate like manne=
r. </P> <P>Mark Bostick </P> <P><A href=3D"http://www.meteoritearticles.c=
om/"><U><FONT color=3D#0000ff>www.meteoritearticles.com</U></FONT></A> </=
P><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR><BR>Please visit, www.MeteoriteA=
rticles.com, a free on-line archive of meteor and meteorite articles.</DI=
V></BODY></HTML>

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Received on Sat 27 Mar 2004 09:11:51 PM PST