[meteorite-list] A "Strike" with a spare ball

From: MexicoDoug_at_aol.com <MexicoDoug_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Thu Apr 22 10:32:45 2004
Message-ID: <123.2b856990.2d768afb_at_aol.com>

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Another way to make this more "intuitive" is to imagine sticking a bowling
ball out the window of a car traveling 155 mph. Do you think that 14 pounds of
air resistance would be on it? Imagine at over 300 mph (the 140 m/s you
mentioned).

Saludos
Doug

En un mensaje con fecha 03/02/2004 6:57:27 PM Mexico Standard Time,
MexicoDoug escribe:

> Hi Rob,
>
> Thanks for the note. I was thinking about the bowling ball problem, too
> especially after seeing your post. The 70 meters per second you mention (as a
> maximum in a friction free fall from 250 meters altitude), as you eluded to,
> is not what the velocity the ball reaches. This is due to the drag
> coefficient. At a typical drag coefficient of 0.5, the distance will be greatly
> multiplied to reach that speed. I would think that their 1,000 meter height is
> about right to reach the 70 m/s (155 mph), without trying to figure that one
> out.
>
> When you say "a bit less" due to the friction, I'd argue "substantially
> less" to the point that it is what is most important.
>
> As to reaching 140 m/s (312 mph), as you suggest from 2,000 meters height,
> you can forget that for a bowling ball. I calculate the terminal velocity of
> a bowling ball to be about the same: 70 m/s (155 mph) (see below). This may
> not be intuitive, but then again intuition is a gift in physics to precious
> few as are experienced skydivers as well. The reason is because a bowling
> ball is basically made of plastic or polymer, perhaps with a heavy small core,
> around as light (say 1.015 g/cc bulk) as water. It is just not that dense and
> is not a good candidate for simulating meteorite densities (3 - 8 g/cc). It
> hurts when it falls on your foot due to the overall mass and relative
> incompressibility, not the density. To make it intuitive, imaging a bowling ball
> made of fine octahedrite. It would probably go through the floor when you let
> it loose, if you could swing it, and it would weigh well over 100 pounds.
> BTW, did you know some premium balls have "oriented" cores of to get special
> "flow" direction?
>
> So the bowling ball actually free falls at a lower speed than an experienced
> skydiver who weighs 10 - 12 times as much but torpedo dives with a cross
> sectional area not way different (maybe a factor of only 2), and reaches twice
> that terminal velocity. The ball will fall at bicycling speed faster than a
> skydiver. That's probably why the guy in the article wants to drop it and let
> it go. That would be fun, as he could find the mass to watch it fall, say
> at his speed and play catch up - fall back with it.
>
> Calculation assumptions:
> Drag coefficient = 0.5 (typical for a sphere)
> Bowling ball diameter = 9 inches (typical)
> Bowling ball weight = 14 pounds (typical most heavy ball)
> Bulk density = 1.01525
>
> I hope I haven't screwed up the numbers, but I still have a headache.
>
> Saludos
> Doug Dawn
> Mexico
>
> En un mensaje con fecha 03/02/2004 5:29:00 PM Mexico Standard Time,
> ROBERT.D.MATSON_at_saic.com escribe:
>
>
> >> On the subject of dropping objects from high places:
>>
>> >On Feb. 13 a single-engine Cessna flew low over the Utah desert toward the
>>
>> >Bonneville Seabase at 80 knots. Pilot Patrick Wiggins checked his
>> altimeter.
>> >As planned, he was just 820 feet (250 meters) above the surface.
>>
>> At this low altitude, the bowling ball would only have reached a velocity
>> of
>> 70 m/sec in a vacuum -- a bit less going through air. But isn't typical
>> terminal
>> velocity for a good-sized meteorite more like 200 m/sec? If so, then the
>> drop
>> altitude would need to be over 2000 meters (over 6500 feet) to reach
>> terminal
>> velocity.
>>
>> >Wiggins hopes to make the next drop at more than a half-mile up (1,000
>> meters),
>> >from where an object should achieve "terminal velocity," or top vertical
>> speed,
>> >zooming straight down and having lost all its horizontal movement induced
>> >by the airplane ride.
>>
>> At 1000-meter altitude, the bowling ball only has time to get up to 140
>> m/sec,
>> which is probably fine for a smaller meteorite, but larger ones will be
>> faster.
>>
>> --Rob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

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<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><HTML><FONT SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=
=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">Another way to make this more "intu=
itive" is to imagine sticking a bowling ball out the window of a car traveli=
ng 155 mph.&nbsp; Do you think that 14 pounds of air resistance would be on=20=
it?&nbsp; Imagine at over 300 mph (the 140 m/s you mentioned).<BR>
<BR>
Saludos<BR>
Doug<BR>
<BR>
En un mensaje con fecha 03/02/2004 6:57:27 PM Mexico Standard Time, MexicoDo=
ug escribe:</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGRO=
UND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial"=
LANG=3D"0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Hi Rob,<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for the note.&nbsp; I was thinking about the bowling ball problem, to=
o especially after seeing your post.&nbsp; The 70 meters per second you ment=
ion (as a maximum in a friction free fall from 250 meters altitude), as you=20=
eluded to, is not what the velocity the ball reaches.&nbsp; This is due to t=
he drag coefficient.&nbsp; At a typical drag coefficient of 0.5, the distanc=
e will be greatly multiplied to reach that speed.&nbsp; I would think that t=
heir 1,000 meter height is about right to reach the 70 m/s (155 mph), withou=
t trying to figure that one out.<BR>
<BR>
When you say "a bit less" due to the friction, I'd argue "substantially less=
" to the point that it is what is most important.<BR>
<BR>
As to reaching 140 m/s (312 mph), as you suggest from 2,000 meters height, y=
ou can forget that for a bowling ball.&nbsp; I calculate the terminal veloci=
ty of a bowling ball to be about the same: 70 m/s (155 mph) (see below).&nbs=
p; This may not be intuitive, but then again intuition is a gift in physics=20=
to precious few as are experienced skydivers as well.&nbsp; The reason is be=
cause a bowling ball is basically made of plastic or polymer, perhaps with a=
heavy small core, around as light (say 1.015 g/cc bulk) as water.&nbsp; It=20=
is just not that dense and is not a good candidate for simulating meteorite=20=
densities (3 - 8 g/cc).&nbsp; It hurts when it falls on your foot due to the=
overall mass and relative incompressibility, not the density.&nbsp; To make=
it intuitive, imaging a bowling ball made of fine octahedrite.&nbsp; It wou=
ld probably go through the floor when you let it loose, if you could swing i=
t, and it would weigh well over 100 pounds.&nbsp; BTW, did you know some pre=
mium balls have "oriented" cores of to get special "flow" direction?<BR>
<BR>
So the bowling ball actually free falls at a lower speed than an experienced=
skydiver who weighs 10 - 12 times as much but torpedo dives with a cross se=
ctional area not way different (maybe a factor of only 2), and reaches twice=
that terminal velocity.&nbsp; The ball will fall at bicycling speed faster=20=
than a skydiver.&nbsp; That's probably why the guy in the article wants to d=
rop it and let it go.&nbsp; That would be fun, as he could find the mass to=20=
watch it fall, say at his speed and play catch up - fall back with it.<BR>
<BR>
Calculation assumptions:<BR>
Drag coefficient =3D 0.5 (typical for a sphere)<BR>
Bowling ball diameter =3D 9 inches (typical)<BR>
Bowling ball weight =3D 14 pounds (typical most heavy ball)<BR>
Bulk density =3D 1.01525<BR>
<BR>
I hope I haven't screwed up the numbers, but I still have a headache.<BR>
<BR>
Saludos<BR>
Doug Dawn<BR>
Mexico<BR>
<BR>
En un mensaje con fecha 03/02/2004 5:29:00 PM Mexico Standard Time, ROBERT.D=
.MATSON_at_saic.com escribe:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"></FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff"=
BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 F=
AMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">On the subject of dropping obj=
ects from high places:</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=
=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FAC=
E=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
>&gt;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-CO=
LOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=
=3D"0">On Feb. 13 a single-engine Cessna flew low over the Utah desert towar=
d the</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-CO=
LOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=
=3D"0"> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND=
-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LA=
NG=3D"0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
>&gt;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-CO=
LOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=
=3D"0">Bonneville Seabase at 80 knots. Pilot Patrick Wiggins checked his alt=
imeter.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-=
COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LAN=
G=3D"0"> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUN=
D-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" L=
ANG=3D"0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
>&gt;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-CO=
LOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=
=3D"0">As planned, he was just 820 feet (250 meters) above the surface.</FON=
T><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffff=
ff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> </F=
ONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ff=
ffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><B=
R>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D12 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0=
"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
>At this low altitude, the bowling ball would only have reached a velocity o=
f</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0=
"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
>70 m/sec in a vacuum -- a bit less going through air.&nbsp; But isn't typic=
al terminal</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGRO=
UND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial"=
LANG=3D"0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
>velocity for a good-sized meteorite more like 200 m/sec?&nbsp; If so, then=20=
the drop</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND=
-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LA=
NG=3D"0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
>altitude would need to be over 2000 meters (over 6500 feet) to reach termin=
al</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR=
: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"=
0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
>velocity.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROU=
ND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial"=20=
LANG=3D"0"> <BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
>&gt;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-CO=
LOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=
=3D"0">Wiggins hopes to make the next drop at more than a half-mile up (1,00=
0 meters),</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROU=
ND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial"=20=
LANG=3D"0"> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGR=
OUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial=
" LANG=3D"0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
>&gt;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-CO=
LOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=
=3D"0">from where an object should achieve "terminal velocity," or top verti=
cal speed,</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROU=
ND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial"=20=
LANG=3D"0"> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGR=
OUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial=
" LANG=3D"0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
>&gt;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-CO=
LOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=
=3D"0">zooming straight down and having lost all its horizontal movement ind=
uced</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COL=
OR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=
=3D"0"> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND=
-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LA=
NG=3D"0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
>&gt;</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-CO=
LOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=
=3D"0">by the airplane ride.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff"=
style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERI=
F" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> </FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#fffff=
f" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSE=
RIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D12 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0=
"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
>At 1000-meter altitude, the bowling ball only has time to get up to 140 m/s=
ec,</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLO=
R: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=
=3D"0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
>which is probably fine for a smaller meteorite, but</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#=
333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=
=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"> </FONT><FONT COLOR=
=3D"#0000ff" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 P=
TSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0">larger ones will b=
e faster.</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUN=
D-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" L=
ANG=3D"0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D12 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0=
"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
>--Rob</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-C=
OLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D12 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=
=3D"0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0=
"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D12 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
><I><BR>
</I><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D12 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#333333" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D12 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR=3D"#000000" BACK=3D"#ffffff" style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR:=20=
#ffffff" SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D10 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF" FACE=3D"Arial" LANG=3D"0"=
><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
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Received on Tue 02 Mar 2004 08:12:27 PM PST

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