[meteorite-list] FW: Re: possible fireball in Portugal - update

From: Robert Verish <bolidechaser_at_meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Sat Jun 5 13:44:02 2004
Message-ID: <20040605174233.42139.qmail_at_web51704.mail.yahoo.com>

--------------- Forward Message ---------------

Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2004 23:59:53 +0200
From: "Marco Langbroek" <marco.langbroek_at_wanadoo.nl>
To: "Andrei Ol'khovatov" <olkhov_at_mail.ru>, "Global
Meteor Observing
        Forum" <meteorobs_at_meteorobs.org>

Subject: Re: possible fireball in Portugal - update


> It looks like "airplane associated" indeed.
> Airplane's contrails illuminated by sun?
> The only strange thing is that (if I correctly
> understand) the Portuguese AirForce completely
> failed to indentify them as airplanes. Just a large
> airplane with transponder etc. can cruise at 12 km
> altitude. Maybe some confusing, misunderstanding,
> etc.

> Jose, Paulo,

The thing that stikes me as being odd: do you know
whether your Air Force made an interception, i.e. sent
up fighters, to identify it? This would seem
to be a logic thing to do, and if they did not, you
can ask yourself why.....

A few weeks ago this happened in the Netherlands, when
a stupid Air Europe pilot in a 737 flew from Norway to
Palma through Dutch airspace without
identifying himself to air traffic control. Our Air
Force sent up two F-16's who intercepted it; this
created some nice sonic booms. The Germans and
French had their fighters out too on that occasion.
Jose, you mentioned in one of your mails that there
were 20 minutes inbetween two of the sightings.
That would be amble time to scramble some jets and
intercept it. If your Air Force didn't, then why not?
In my country, and most countries able to do so
I think, something unidentified flying at the speeds
and altitudes you mention, certainly would bring our
fighters out, as was the case a few weeks ago.

Just a thought to consider. I cannot believe an Air
Force stand back and do nothing while something is
seen on their radars flying through your national
airspace at aircraft altitudes and speeds.

- Marco

------
Dr Marco Langbroek
Dutch Meteor Society (DMS)
Leiden, the Netherlands
52.15896 N, 4.48884 E (WGS 84)

e-mail: meteorites_at_dmsweb.org
DMS website: http://www.dmsweb.org
priv. website: http://home.wanadoo.nl/marco.langbroek

-------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 Jun 2004 11:05:38 +0400
From: "Andrei Ol'khovatov" <olkhov_at_mail.ru>
To: "Andrei Ol'khovatov" <olkhov_at_mail.ru>, "Global
Meteor Observing Forum" <meteorobs_at_meteorobs.org>

Subject: Re: possible fireball in Portugal - update

Dear All,

Regarding the unindentified light over Portugal on
June 1, 2004, now it looks to me that Sun was already
too deep below horizon to illuminate possible
airplane's contrail.
Unfortunately I don't have software to calculate a
height/altitude of the Earth shadow in the area of the
event, but my rough estimations show that
at 22.15 UTC June 1 Sun was about 22 degrees below
local horizon at 38 N, 8W.
If so indeed the Earth shadow height was ~ 500 km
which completely exclude any possibility of the solar
illumination.

Does anybody have software/program to calculate the
Earth shadow height or the solar [altitude] angle at
least?

Thank you!
Best wishes,
Andrei Ol'khovatov
Russia, Moscow

-------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 05 Jun 2004 17:58:27 +0930
From: Tony Beresford <dberesford_at_adam.com.au>
Subject: Re: (meteorobs) possible fireball in Portugal
To: Andrei Ol'khovatov <olkhov_at_mail.ru>,
Global Meteor Observing Forum<meteorobs_at_meteorobs.org>


At 16:35 5/06/04, you wrote:
>Dear All,
>
>+++++++++++
>Does anybody have software/program to calculate the
>Earth shadow height or the solar [altitude] angle at
>least?
>Andrei

I can confirm all your calculations above. Firstly
just used a planetarium programme (SkyMap Pro) to
calculate solar depression angle, at 2215UT at
latitude longitude above on June 1 as 22 degrees
Then an application of the Sine rule for the triangle
gives h= R( (1/sin 68) -1) where R= radius of Earth
which solves to 500Km
Tony Beresford
PS Might not the aircraft detected be just a
coincidence
 
-------------- End of Forward Message --------------




        
                
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger.
http://messenger.yahoo.com/
Received on Sat 05 Jun 2004 01:42:33 PM PDT